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Richard Stallman reveals he has cancer in the GNU 40 Hacker Meeting talk [video]

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Re: Richard Stallman reveals he has cancer in the GNU 40 Hacker Meeting talk [video]

#561

Post by robertlagrant »

calderknight wrote: post #541
robertlagrant wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's correct. The point is you can't just dismiss based on selection bias. You could say that the survivors of the Titanic didn't want to drown, sure, but you're selecting for the people who survived. The people who all drowned might have wanted to! I.e. there's a balance. People basically always migrating in one direction must tell you something other than "those exact people just wanted to".

Can you please point out for me specifically where you and I disagree?

I'm a different person. But the previous person said "yes it is a skewed sample, but the sample is still useful information" and you said "exactly - we should look outside the sample for information".

Re: Richard Stallman reveals he has cancer in the GNU 40 Hacker Meeting talk [video]

#562

Post by hutzlibu »

cultureswitch wrote: post #556
hutzlibu wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it also is about people wanting their software to be used by everyone, including buisness, without limitations. That can have selfish reasons like wanting money of buisness people, but can also have idealistic reasons. Not everyone is a fan of enforcing freedom, as that is a contradiction to some. Like I said, different opinions. Freedom etc. Not accepted by RMS and co I know. Which is why I will continue to stay…

GPL software can be used and modified by businesses. There's absolutely nothing preventing that, except the business being more lawyers than brains.

Yes but some companies think they need trade secrets and or licence fees. And GPL companies somehow have not replaced them. So they maybe have a point in todays capitalistic world?

I mean, how many articles and blogs are there about how to make money with foss and how many desperation and frustration is around that topic? How many games exist, that are donation funded?

I mean, please tell me, I want to publish a game, how could I make money with it with the GPL?

Selling it to only one person, who then can publish the code?

Having the code open, but serve ads or ingame purchases, rewarding addictive behavior? Sounds not so ethical either.

That leaves only donations and traditionally people do not value things they get for free. Some do and I hope their number will grow. But as of status quo the majority does not. Some GPL games I know make money, because they sell at steam and the users do not know they could also download it. Is that really ethical? What other GPL buisness modells exists?

A game is not a professional software, people would be willing to buy support contracts for.

Re: Richard Stallman reveals he has cancer in the GNU 40 Hacker Meeting talk [video]

#563

Post by robertlagrant »

calderknight wrote: post #510
badpun wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me the countries (ok, even one country) in the world where people are happy that they are/were under communism. In other words, it's not selection bias when everybody holds more or less the same opinion.

Russia, China, Vietnam. Anyway, you're being illogical. A flawed argument will remain just as flawed when it is used to reach a true conclusion as when it is used to reach a false conclusion. If you want to prove me wrong, show that it is sensible to infer from the fact that an extremely selected-for sample has some property that the entire population has that same property - and do so without appealing to a bigger p…

The Russian and Chinese death toll under Communism went into the mid to high tens of millions, no?

Re: Richard Stallman reveals he has cancer in the GNU 40 Hacker Meeting talk [video]

#564

Post by tekla »

adingus wrote: post #509
hutzlibu wrote: post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"We need absolutists like him who go to extremes and are known widely." But what is he known for, outside tech circles, if he is known at all? When you want to deliver a message, it matters a lot, how you deliver it.

Even as someone who has been a dev for 5 years I only know him as that gross guy who likes free software. Note that 'gross guy' is the main point here. He has failed to communicate any nuance to his message. Another person might have 80% the same opinion as him but be able to reach 200% of the people as him by way of not having such a bad reputation. If the free software 'movement' wants to move anyone they need to g…

Always good to know that the modern generation of devs are ok with discounting someones ideas because they are "gross".

These "gross" people are the ones who made overpaid dev positions possible.

Re: Richard Stallman reveals he has cancer in the GNU 40 Hacker Meeting talk [video]

#565

Post by garba_dlm »

leidenfrost wrote: post #390
dEnigma wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel similarly. While I absolutely can't and won't operate under the severe restrictions that an ideologically pure stance on software freedom ala Stallman would impose, I'm glad that there are some people, like Stallman himself, who take it to those extremes, tirelessly advocate for improvement and thus move the needle towards a better middle ground for everyone.

It's a lot more understandable if you consider the state of computing he experienced while growing up: Programs were way simpler, and shipping the source code in paper was the de facto way of distribution. It's not like he was a wacko around his peers. He just created what seemed a logical step from that. I'm just sad that there's no young people to pass the torch for when the time comes and the founding fathers are…

> I'm just sad that there's no young people to pass the torch for when the time comes and the founding fathers are no more.

yes there are; but also not really.

due to my age cohort I'm see my self as this "next generation" software scientist/engineer who is aware and believes in FOSS and "liberty minded software";

I suppose most of use are millennials but the whole generation-label stuff is not accurate so maybe in the USA this next gen of people are a bit older but in other poorer countries they're younger???

in any case I think a lot of younger engineers got swayed away from the FSF/GNU ideological stuff by means of 'being pragmatic' which is just a consequence of when the open source movement distinguished itself as different from the free software.

I think the impact of this may have something to do with leidenfrost's appraisal that there's no next-gen to pass the torch to.

it seems like us millennials do not rally, we don't come together into any kind of social movement or dunno.

Re: Richard Stallman reveals he has cancer in the GNU 40 Hacker Meeting talk [video]

#566

Post by achenet »

maurice2k wrote: post #211
achenet wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

speaking as someone who quite enjoys the GNU website [0], I would rather they not start gunking everything up with "a CoOl LoOkInG JaVaScRiPt CaRoUsEl" like every other SaaS website out there. [0] for example: https://www.gnu.org/fun/jokes/ed-msg.en.html

I guess you're the audience they're targeting with this nerdy content :-) I can also lightly smile but give this to a 20 or 30 year old person. They won't understand it.

I just turned 31.

Re: Richard Stallman reveals he has cancer in the GNU 40 Hacker Meeting talk [video]

#567

Post by tekla »

orwin wrote: post #330
bonoboTP wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parts of Europe that lived under communism (so from East Germany eastward) have a much more negative view of communism than Americans for whom it was a theoretical, faraway geopolitical issue, which they never experienced. Still, around 20 years ago when I was a teen, some edgy kids did wear Che and Marx t-shirts and it was considered cool in some circles. I'd say it is an imitation of the West. As paradoxical as…

I do not think it's true. It's wishful thinking at best, but sadly (or not, depending on your views), Eastern Europe is going through an identity crisis right now, and at least in Romania/Ukraine/Russia pré invasion (don't know about other countries), you could see a lot of misery and a lot of people yearning for the 'good old days', even people who weren't alive back then. I'd say it's half 50+, half young people, m…

I had grandparents who lived under Communism.

They would had GLADLY spit on the graves of every Communist they came across. Killed so many members of my family.

Re: Richard Stallman reveals he has cancer in the GNU 40 Hacker Meeting talk [video]

#568

Post by I_Am_Nous »

jraph wrote: post #498
bawolff wrote: post #423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter? His message isn't for non-programmers. What is plato known for among people who don't give a shit about philosophy?

> Does it matter? His message isn't for non-programmers. His message is pretty much user-centered. (and programmers deserve good message delivery too)

True, yet most users don't care about the details in any meaningful way. They just want to be able to use a convenient service like Spotify...who cares that they don't OWN the music anymore? Who cares that they don't pay artists as much as they could?

The only time it's a problem is when an artist doesn't release their music on a certain platform and it's now work to try and go download a second app, make an account, possibly pay a subscription, and THEN listen to the new album. These are the kind of things users actually care about, not whether the app/backend is FOSS or not.

HN is a power user community so it's easy to improperly extrapolate our experiences and what we tolerate to what "normal users" will tolerate.

Re: Richard Stallman reveals he has cancer in the GNU 40 Hacker Meeting talk [video]

#569

Post by tm-guimaraes »

robertlagrant wrote: post #563
calderknight wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russia, China, Vietnam. Anyway, you're being illogical. A flawed argument will remain just as flawed when it is used to reach a true conclusion as when it is used to reach a false conclusion. If you want to prove me wrong, show that it is sensible to infer from the fact that an extremely selected-for sample has some property that the entire population has that same property - and do so without appealing to a bigger p…

The Russian and Chinese death toll under Communism went into the mid to high tens of millions, no?

Think of the benefits! Plenty of wrong opinions we don’t get to hear!

Re: Richard Stallman reveals he has cancer in the GNU 40 Hacker Meeting talk [video]

#570

Post by garba_dlm »

I think it's impressive how he saw a danger, a possibility some 20 years before it was even a feasible technical reality

referring to his story of "right to read" or something like that about books being able to get deleted of your bookshelf... and then Amazon making this a reality some decades later

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