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Apple Vision

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Re: Apple Vision

#561

Post by euroderf »

cubefox wrote: post #510
euroderf wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> IR dot-patterns will be its own problem. And I hope you never want to curl up on that couch to watch a movie with a blanket. :D Speaking of which, notice how nobody who was relying on finger gestures (rather than a keyboard) was using menus, or doing anything mouse-like. Just scrolling and clicking.

You point to things by looking at it, which is very precise according to people who have tried it, like MKBHD. Clicking and dragging is done by finger pinching. So it works quite similar to a touchscreen or a mouse.

Yes apparently it is surprisingly precise. There might be an uncanny valley when the system is perhaps a little too good at predicting what your next move is. Are the goggles monitoring your facial expressions, looking not just for eye movement but also wrinkled noses, scrunched-up foreheads, etc. ? Will it be able to function as (for example) a lie detector ?

Re: Apple Vision

#562

Post by euroderf »

euroderf wrote: post #561
cubefox wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You point to things by looking at it, which is very precise according to people who have tried it, like MKBHD. Clicking and dragging is done by finger pinching. So it works quite similar to a touchscreen or a mouse.

Yes apparently it is surprisingly precise. There might be an uncanny valley when the system is perhaps a little too good at predicting what your next move is. Are the goggles monitoring your facial expressions, looking not just for eye movement but also wrinkled noses, scrunched-up foreheads, etc. ? Will it be able to function as (for example) a lie detector ?

I refer of course to https://twitter.com/sterlingcrispin/status/16657924229144535...

Re: Apple Vision

#563

Post by remich »

ruh-roh wrote: post #557
cubefox wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That the device will, if successful, make us even more lonely.

Yes - that mental picture of a divorced dad watching old family photos come to life, while sitting alone on his couch - is just gutting. Like a literal punch in the gut. But having said that, is "loneliness" the correct (or only) takeaway on that? I mean, there are people toying with the idea of uploading emails and documents of the deceased to an LLM so relatives can still "talk" to them. I don't have a word for wha…

While I think the "divorced dad" thing is one use case, I don't see it as the primary one. Granted we're a ways from this reality, but, especially if Apple releases standalone cameras or builds recording for these moments into iphones/ipads, it seems to me that the use case for this feature is not to replace human connection, but to have a facsimile of it when circumstances prevent you from being able to do something in the real world.

I can very much see a future where that technology is a useful tool in helping people through grief and loss, or for experiencing parts of the world that you otherwise can't (prohibitively expensive; you have disabilities that prevent accessing it).

Examples:

- Replaying interactions with a beloved pet who has died. Reliving taking your dog to the dog park or playing with your cat.

- Replaying interactions with parents/grandparents/friends who have died, or have been altered by a debilitating illness such as ALS or Alzheimer's

- Reliving memories of taking a trip somewhere that you couldn't easily go to again (different country, national park, etc)

- Spatial experiences of beautiful parts of the earth that you've never been to

In the current world, we rely on our own imperfect memories and the inadequate still photos and 2D videos. This type of thing could end up a gamechanger in 5-10 years.

Re: Apple Vision

#564

Post by magarnicle »

eep_social wrote: post #537
magarnicle wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it make a difference that he acknowledges he is gushing?

No, it’s a tactic to disarm criticism by pretending to pre-address the obvious “don’t do that” response. “I know my behavior is bad but I am openly acknowledging it so you should trust me and look beyond it” is remarkable in its ability to disarm critics. To put it another way, “they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab them by the..”

Invoking That Guy's sexual assault in this context, really? So far over the top I don't know what to say.

Re: Apple Vision

#565

Post by bullen »

cassianoleal wrote: post #99
robotshmobot wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It will most likely flop because it has no reliable input. This reads like the critiques just after the iPhone was announced that it will flop because it didn’t have a physical keyboard…

What does it even mean, "no reliable input"? Are they talking about input devices? Not only the headset doesn't need one for basic operations, but it's also compatible with keyboards, mice/trackpads and game controllers. What's missing?

I mean precision superhuman input like mouse or dual analog sticks.

I can't for the life of me see myself using a headset with a mouse, but who knows.

That said you cannot depend on not guaranteed inputs because the market goes down from 250.000 to like 1 for each input device (unless you want to debug all controllers with the headset). You need volume. ONLY Quest 2 has volume and as things are going now it's the only one that will for eternity.

Can we afford 10 million Vision Pro ($35 billion).

I'm just waiting for Quest 2 to get linux... that's inevitable if VR is supposed to have any future.

I'm never touching a closed system like iOS or Android.

Re: Apple Vision

#566

Post by bullen »

mustacheemperor wrote: post #39
bullen wrote: post #29

This is pretty bad for VR. It will most likely flop because it has no reliable input. So far FrankenQuest 2/3 is on top: http://move.rupy.se/file/FrankenQuest.png Let's see what Valve can do...

Videogaming seems like such a small market for Apple to chase individually. They make almost as much revenue on airpods every year as Sony has ever sold in PS5s. I feel like I’ve read this comment verbatim in at least one other thread in the last day or so…am I in the vr simulation already?

Highest-Grossing Entertainment Industry today.

And when all the boomers die, it will eclipse many physical industries.

To underestimate gaming, is to underestimate simulation of life itself.

You're not in the simulation yet.

Re: Apple Vision

#567

Post by ivan_gammel »

sensanaty wrote: post #552
ivan_gammel wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you go to any concert or other public event, half of the audience will be recording on their smartphone instead of watching. I do not see any reason why an iphone of tomorrow won’t have a 3D camera to record and share any important moments the same way as we do it now. There will be the time when we will watch dashcam and drone videos of car crashes, natural disasters and soldiers dying on battlefield sitting on a…

People keep bringing this up, but are we really trying to compare a small rectangle that fits in your pocket and takes 3 button clicks to take a picture with (double power + volume button) to a full on VR headset strapped to your head? The apple fanaticism on this site is really something special, I see no universe in which an idiotic product like this is touted as even somewhat desirable if it didn't have the Apple…

Will my comment be more clear if I will rephrase it in simpler words? Vision Pro can record, but it is not a recording device for the most use cases. Something else will come either from Apple or from 3rd party vendors, probably in a format of a 3D camera in a smartphone. And when such devices will come to the market, people are going to use them the same way they did it before (see Instagram and TikTok for examples). That’s it.

I’m not Apple fan or insider, but what would you do if you were Apple and if you do not have or do not want to disclose the existence of more suitable recording devices? You would probably use the same glasses for the demo, right?

Re: Apple Vision

#568

Post by spopejoy »

eep_social wrote: post #396
jmbwell wrote: post #111

This article is dead on, all the way to the end. Takes a few minutes to read, but its observations on the market position of the device, all the way to the individual/social ramifications and the relevance vis a vis Meta, are as sharp as anything I’ve read about this yet. If it seems like he’s gushing, he is. He’s speaking as someone who has seen lots of these devices and, in his view, this hardware and software outc…

> If it seems like he’s gushing, he is. This is how he writes. If you ever read him on a topic where you are an actual expert, you’ll probably never bother reading him again.

It's a bit dated really. His era is when VC was king and everything was about how this or that tech was truly disruptive or had a deeper moat than you think.

I've never been able to get anything from the whole west coast "startup intelligence" blogosphere, and now it seems increasingly irrelevant and archaic.

Re: Apple Vision

#569

Post by Mimmy »

cubefox wrote: post #503
Mimmy wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To provide an alternative perspective, your comment convinced me to read the article and I didn't think it was substantive at all. Can you give an example of an "sharp" "observation" he made?

That the device will, if successful, make us even more lonely.

That's certainly an observation (and one I agree with), but it's a stretch to call it "sharp".

Everyone and everyone's mother has already made the claim that VR is dystopian. Snow Crash was written in 1992. For literally decades before it's been even implemented, VR has been the quintessential symbol for the irony of technology both bringing us together while keeping us apart.

And to be clear, I'm not even criticizing the product. I think the Vision Pro could be very cool. I'm criticizing the idea that this blog said anything insightful.

Re: Apple Vision

#570

Post by whynaut »

sidibe wrote: post #369
whynaut wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch Marques Brownlee's video on it. It's vastly better than anything before it in both hand- and eye-tracking.

For the first few minutes I thought Hololens was fun too with ET. If you have to look at a lot of letters you are going to get tired of it fast no matter how good it is. It's just not a great input method for typing compared to a real keyboard. If they are so good at hand tracking it'd be better if they put a virtual keyboard on a surface near you that you can type on (I bet they'll have that option eventually)

that virtual keyboard option was already in the keynote. There are also videos of just connecting bluetooth keyboards.
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