TikTok is now banned in Montana • Hacker News Board

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#561

Post by Kamq » Sat, May 20, 2023, 10:31 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #442

Nanana909 wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it's because of China, then ban TikTok and subsidize a competitor app - but be serious about it. Be ready to spend hundreds of ..... Domestic competitors have already published their equivalents though, no subsidied required. It's not a very complicated app - they had clones up in months. Most popular Tik-Tokers already repost their content on these anyways. Why do we need to subsidize naything? This already exi…

> Why do we need to subsidize naything? This already exists. Because the problem presented here is: government bans TikTok, teenagers become experts at using VPN apps to work around the ban. Social media apps live on network effects - it's near-impossible to compete with a well-established giant directly. But this also means that, if you manage to pull a critical mass of users over from your direct competitor, most o…

That's really ignoring the network effect that you're claiming to be dealing with.

As said, you don't subsidize the app creation or use. The apps already exist. The users know roughly how to use them.

The solution would be to take the X biggest content creators and pay them Y Million dollars each to stop posting on tiktok, and start posting on the competitors. Everyone else will follow.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#562

Post by Kamq » Sat, May 20, 2023, 10:36 PM UTC

PurpleRamen wrote: post #424

vasco wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the government have to do with what apps I use in my free time? Are they also going to force me to read nonfiction instead of fiction because it's "the right move"? This sounds like some dystopian crap. What committee decides which apps are good for you or not and how long is long enough?

> What does the government have to do with what apps I use in my free time? Because it's literally their job: Protect the citizen. They may not do a good job all the time, most times they are even very bad. But nonetheless do they try and prevent most of the worst cases. And TikTok is so insane efficient in what it's doing, the line between benefit and harm is so thin, it could easily turn into a "worst case"-scenari…

> Because it's literally their job: Protect the citizen.

That is not automatically the government's job. At least not in every worldview.

And these things exist on a spectrum. Protecting people from direct external threats is pretty unobjectionable to most philosophical systems that allow governments, but there's a lot more controversy around protecting people from themselves.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#563

Post by fivetozero » Sat, May 20, 2023, 10:42 PM UTC

a reaction to article on https://520.btw.so/when-montana-outlaws-tiktok

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#564

Post by CapstanRoller » Sun, May 21, 2023, 5:29 AM UTC

twelve40 wrote: post #504

amelius wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meanwhile nobody is speaking about the real enemy here, which is data-brokers who will gladly sell any data of US citizens to evil countries. We would be better served by a total ban on user tracking technologies.

data brokers like who? and what the hell would China even do with my data? or which countries is my data supposedly sold to?

Snowden: "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#565

Post by CapstanRoller » Sun, May 21, 2023, 5:37 AM UTC

kranke155 wrote: post #415

TeMPOraL wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would be the specific harm of TikTok? Is it because of China, or because of this style of social media apps? If it's because of China, then ban TikTok and subsidize a competitor app - but be serious about it. Be ready to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on keeping the app free and servers up for years, sponsoring hundreds of content creators, dragging celebrities in to produce exclusive content, burning ton…

In a free market a ban should be enough for competitors and replacements to arise

Free markets only exist in econ textbooks. It would be more productive to discuss actually-existing markets.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#566

Post by CapstanRoller » Sun, May 21, 2023, 5:41 AM UTC

onionisafruit wrote: post #441

TeMPOraL wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, culture is downstream of economics and technology, so starting from the political end is going to be... an uphill battle.

It’s all a lazy river flowing in a circle. Everything is downstream of everything else.

Material conditions stand above all else. Ideology withers when confronted by reality.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#567

Post by dazld » Sun, May 21, 2023, 5:47 AM UTC

I'm curious if TikTok will eventually attempt to give content about PRISM an algorithm boost to try and show that US companies are not better in terms of government data access. Might help keep users on their side.

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#568

Post by RugnirViking » Sun, May 21, 2023, 9:24 AM UTC

woooooo wrote: post #559

RugnirViking wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

could you link to the story?

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-64827885

that seems to be pretty even handed to me

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#569

Post by twelve40 » Sun, May 21, 2023, 9:58 AM UTC

CapstanRoller wrote: post #564

twelve40 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

data brokers like who? and what the hell would China even do with my data? or which countries is my data supposedly sold to?

Snowden: "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

that's a very non-answer answer to the question of why would China pay $10+ or whatever for my address and my location in the US. To sway my vote? How does this make any sense?

Re: TikTok is now banned in Montana

#570

Post by amelius » Sun, May 21, 2023, 2:56 PM UTC

CapstanRoller wrote: post #564

twelve40 wrote: post #504

Earlier quoted context omitted.

data brokers like who? and what the hell would China even do with my data? or which countries is my data supposedly sold to?

Snowden: "Arguing that you don't care about the right to privacy because you have nothing to hide is no different than saying you don't care about free speech because you have nothing to say."

Them: I have nothing to hide.

Me: Ok, what is your salary?

Them: uhh... let's change the subject