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Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

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Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#561

Post by kqr »

jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

I would be concerned about any sort of individual bonus directly linked to the service just rendered. That tends to work against cooperation and creativity and problem solving. Only when you are unencumbered by incentives can you afford to experiment and learn from your mistakes and get better at what you do. (See e.g. Pink's Drive for more details on motivation.)

It's especially bad if it's based on some variant of having scores "above average" or whatever, because that ends up being a lottery. At that point it's better to just establish a lottery among the employees. If you really have to do individual bonuses, I think it's better to take a leaf from Deming and only grant it for truly (statistically verified) outperformance.

Someone else suggested collective bonuses (e.g. profit sharing). That aligns incentives nicely: it is slightly lagged, meaning you can afford to experiment and learn. It's also not individual, so it fosters collaboration. It's still something of a lottery, of course, but one decided by the customers, not by a manager.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#562

Post by rippercushions »

yafbum wrote: post #449

There has been a deplorable profusion of dark patterns in restaurant checkout UIs, such as offering preselected tip amounts set along a 18-20-25% scale (standard used to be 15%), making it quite difficult to leave a custom tip, etc. Add to this various "surcharges" and other mandatory fees added for this or that (my favorite: mandatory "resort fees" for hotels - seriously why is that not just rolled into the price of…

Try taking a taxi in NYC. IIRC the preselected tip options are 20%, 25% and 30%, and this is on top of a base fare of $100 to Newark when an Uber is literally half price.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#564

Post by 4ndrewl »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #524
dang wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should write a longer piece about your coffee shop! and the process behind it. If you do, you should submit it to HN - and if you do that you should email us (hn@ycombinator.com) because we might put it in the second-chance pool ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26998308 ).

I love how one person opened a coffee shop which basically operates like every single coffee shop in the world apart from the US , and you guys need a detailed write up, charts, flow charts, tips for the secret sauce :)

ikr - someone also posting about how crypto could be the answer too - peak HN!

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#565

Post by jacktribe »

mnky9800n wrote: post #527
jacktribe wrote: post #99

I've just opened a coffee shop in Los Angeles last month, and we don't take tips. We only use self-ordering iPads (I've custom coded an iOS app w/ Stripe Terminal for it), and we don't accept cash either. We've had a few customers baffled by the no-tipping policy, and still insisting that they leave a tip. Some even left cash on the counter or on the table. We had to chase a few of them down to return their money. Al…

The review feedback program sounds like over engineered nonsense. You get metrics which you think represents customer experience which you can use to evaluate and motivate your employees to act a certain in this coffee fueled skinner box designed to train baristas. But the data won't represent that, the interaction with a barista is only a small fraction of what makes a coffee shop good (first should be good coffee,…

While profit sharing may work as an incentive for shift managers or store managers, in the absence of tips most baristas will expect some other immediate bonus pay, preferably based on a measurable metric that doesn't depend on factors beyond the barista's control, such as cost of goods sold, supply chain constraints, rent hikes, recessions, etc.

If you occasionally ask the customer in-app "how was your service today?" with a simple thumbs up/down option, and you associate the order's rating with the barista behind the counter, you can get a good metric on their interaction with customers. You'd probably want to use the median and not the mean in order to remove any outliers.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#566

Post by Dylan16807 »

hezralig wrote: post #525
Dylan16807 wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, unless those areas have worse laws than the US somehow, make sure the server knows that at the very least they should sue the day they quit or get fired.

This compulsion to threaten a lawsuit is such a quintessentially so American. For an American service worker, it also isn't realistic to carry out a lawsuit given that most are working paycheck to paycheck. Unfortunately, wage theft dwarfs petty theft in the United States due to economic inequality and the inaccessibility of the mostly pay2win American legal system, for the average worker. Millions of workers lose bi…

I didn't say threaten.

And I didn't say "carry out a lawsuit". You can go to small claims court. Especially since you just lost that job; you can afford the few hours.

I also said "at least", because this is just the plan B if labor enforcement won't do their job and get the money for you. But I assume you don't trust labor enforcement if your plan is to let that 10% get stolen and do nothing.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#567

Post by andirk »

jraph wrote: post #548
andirk wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer paying cash. It is also elitist to not accept cash because it means I need a credit card or an expensive phone, neither of which I have on me while jogging. I also don't jog, but you get the point. At my gym I had a keychain bar code that worked great. Now I need my phone, phone charged, brightness up, their stupid app, signed in, open it up, click check-in. It turned a 2 second 1 gram device in to this whol…

> I also don't jog, but you get the point No, I don't. Carrying a card is way easier than carrying cash while jogging. Thin, smaller, more lightweight. I see one benefit of cash: the privacy.

I frequent taco trucks and places that prefer cash and almost no places that don't so I have ~$40 in my gym bag and neither of my 2 heavily used credit cards.

I will have maids coming over tomorrow for the first time in a millennia and I will pay them however they prefer and I'm assuming that's cash. Card is amazing, but cash has its place it bothers me to see it sidelined.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#568

Post by andyvesel »

In Czech Republic, where I live, the tipping and payment system in restaurants is very convenient. As for the tips, if you paying, say 241 CZK, you don't need to worry about percentage, just round up to 250 and all will be good. Also, if you don't tip and just pay 241, it is totally acceptable, nobody will ever say nothing or look at you wrong. Just "Thank you" as usual. Regarding the payment it is also very convenient: you pay for yourself. E.g. your company at the table ordered very different food, drinks, some of them leaving sooner, some later. So when you finished, you just go to the cashdesk (or wait at the table) and say to the waiter what you had. That's it, you are not bothering with splitting the bills, counting tips or other annoying stuff. So far this is my favorite model of how it can be done.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#569

Post by mmsimanga »

unethical_ban wrote: post #428
expensive_news wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat of a meta-comment but I’m shocked at how many people are complaining about you not taking cash. Has anyone ever walked out of your coffee shop because they only had cash on them? I can’t remember the last time I paid or even saw someone pay cash for anything.

I go to a bar that is cashless and still see people have to leave because they only had cash (or didn't want to use their card). To play devil's advocate, credit cards are another way to get tracked, a great way for a duopoly of companies to skim 1-3% off the economy, a way to be analyzed by the merchant, a way to get more explicitly prompted to pay a 20% tip, and more hassle than handing a $5 for a $4.73 coffee and…

> a great way for a duopoly of companies to skim 1-3% off the economy

I mean by all means use your card everywhere but I think we should make a concerted effort to keep our options open.

Re: Is tipping getting out of control? Many consumers say yes

#570

Post by mikhael28 »

acdha wrote: post #188
jjav wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you tip . generously No, absolutely not, that is not the correct solution to the very real problem of underpaid staff. Instead I want laws to ban tipping and force jobs to pay a reasonable living wage at a minimum. Yes the product will cost more in restaurants but so be it, it's the honest way to do it.

Push for those laws. Patronize restaurants which pay well. Until that’s universal, tip generously anywhere you aren’t certain pays their works great wages. Good intentions don’t help anyone make rent.

I used to work as a janitor for minimum wage. I never got a tip. How was that fair?

Did I not provide a service?

You sound like someone who used to work as an employee who received tips.

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