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US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

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Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#561

Post by stainablesteel »

hackerlight wrote: post #241
stainablesteel wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this is a bad take 1. the us had open borders because they could offer land to people coming in, it had economic benefits for everyone involved. nowadays, EVERYONE wants to get in, especially actors with bad intentions, and as was just shown in europe not even five years ago now, open borders are a terrible idea with long lasting consequences. 2. economic growth does not simply derive from a larger population, there'…

There's really no substance to anything you've said here. Just confusion and fears and basic misunderstanding of economics and geopolitics. Please consult any economist or international relations scholar on point 2 or 3.

and what substance is there to open borders, let alone the argument that 'we' (who exactly?) had open borders for most of human history

for the past few thousand years, you risked your life by traveling. if someone went around looking for slaves to sell and you found yourself clamped in iron, your life was over

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#562

Post by staringback »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #274
staringback wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is less "sim card is tied to this phone and can't be moved" and more "sim card exists logically and doesn't require a physical presence in the phone it wants to be used in"

Which really sucks for travellers. High roaming costs? Just go to a gasstation and buy a travel sim card, put it inside, use it, put it in the walled when you leave, and if you still have any data left, use it the next time you come there. eSIMs are a pain in the ass for that.

Just go to a carrier website, buy an esim, download to the phone, use it, switch it off when you leave, use it next time you come there.

It is literally the same except you don't even need to go to a gas station. My Pixel can hold as many esims as I want standing by until they are needed to be used.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#563

Post by lisper »

MockObject wrote: post #560
lisper wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure this is really going to be worth the effort but for some reason I can't seem to just let this one go. Let's trace this back to the beginning ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32866019 ): This is /u/xoa quoting from TFA: > Hassan Shibly, chief executive director of CAIR Florida, tells The Verge that most people who are shown the form giving CBP authority to search their device believe that they have…

I don't know how you're improving your case here at all. >> people have been killed by law enforcement for doing what you are suggesting. > Can you cite any examples of this happening? I’m a pretty big policing reform person and follow this stuff closely and can’t think of a single case like this. And at this point, you decided to react with snark. Here's why that was wrong: 1. George Floyd is an example of what happ…

> Did you honestly think a "pretty big policing reform person" wouldn't be aware of George Floyd?

It seemed improbable, but profound ignorance is not exactly unheard of on the internet.

In any case, it seemed manifestly true that /u/ch4s3 had either not seen or chosen to ignore the example that /u/xnyan provided because he didn't refer to it at all. "Can you provide an example?" is what you say when you think no example has been provided. It is not what you say when you are aware that an example has been provided but you think the example is deficient. What you say in that case is something like: "The example you provided is deficient because... Can you provide a better one?"

> Here's why that was wrong:

Here is why you are wrong: if you give someone an example and they respond by saying "Can you give me an example?" you should not be surprised when you leave your interlocutor somewhat nonplussed, and you should be equally unsurprised when they, being human, respond with a certain amount of frustration at your inability to communicate your intentions more clearly. It's like if you gave a homeless person a pizza and they respond by saying, "Can you give me a pizza?" Dude, I just gave you a pizza, what more do you want? Oh, this is a ham-and-pineapple pizza. I wanted pepperoni! If you think a snarky response is inappropriate in a situation like that, well, we'll just have to agree to disagree about that.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#564

Post by MockObject »

lisper wrote: post #563
MockObject wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how you're improving your case here at all. >> people have been killed by law enforcement for doing what you are suggesting. > Can you cite any examples of this happening? I’m a pretty big policing reform person and follow this stuff closely and can’t think of a single case like this. And at this point, you decided to react with snark. Here's why that was wrong: 1. George Floyd is an example of what happ…

> Did you honestly think a "pretty big policing reform person" wouldn't be aware of George Floyd? It seemed improbable, but profound ignorance is not exactly unheard of on the internet. In any case, it seemed manifestly true that /u/ch4s3 had either not seen or chosen to ignore the example that /u/xnyan provided because he didn't refer to it at all . "Can you provide an example?" is what you say when you think no exa…

Isn't it a bit more like

Alice: "Statement A. Example A. Statement B."

Bob: "Can you give me an example?"

You: "She just gave you example A!!!!"

Everyone else: "Bob must be asking for example B."

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#565

Post by MockObject »

lisper wrote: post #563
MockObject wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know how you're improving your case here at all. >> people have been killed by law enforcement for doing what you are suggesting. > Can you cite any examples of this happening? I’m a pretty big policing reform person and follow this stuff closely and can’t think of a single case like this. And at this point, you decided to react with snark. Here's why that was wrong: 1. George Floyd is an example of what happ…

> Did you honestly think a "pretty big policing reform person" wouldn't be aware of George Floyd? It seemed improbable, but profound ignorance is not exactly unheard of on the internet. In any case, it seemed manifestly true that /u/ch4s3 had either not seen or chosen to ignore the example that /u/xnyan provided because he didn't refer to it at all . "Can you provide an example?" is what you say when you think no exa…

If he didn't know what happened to George Floyd, he wouldn't have asked "for an example". He would have asked "who is George Floyd?"

People don't ask for examples of proper nouns.

This is why fluent English speakers understood clearly that he wasn't asking for an example of George Floyd, and therefore was asking for an example of something else, an example that had not been provided.

Re: US border forces are seizing Americans' phone data and storing it for 15 years

#566

Post by lisper »

MockObject wrote: post #564
lisper wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you honestly think a "pretty big policing reform person" wouldn't be aware of George Floyd? It seemed improbable, but profound ignorance is not exactly unheard of on the internet. In any case, it seemed manifestly true that /u/ch4s3 had either not seen or chosen to ignore the example that /u/xnyan provided because he didn't refer to it at all . "Can you provide an example?" is what you say when you think no exa…

Isn't it a bit more like Alice: "Statement A. Example A. Statement B." Bob: "Can you give me an example?" You: "She just gave you example A!!!!" Everyone else: "Bob must be asking for example B."

No, because Statement B in this analogy would be: "Your rights don't mean shit to cops."
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