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The case for bad coffee (2015)

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Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#561

Post by jb1991 »

Tao3300 wrote: post #354
ehnto wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt many places had a drip machine, most of Europe does espresso coffee. It does really depend but in most places a "cup of coffee" is going to be a bit ambiguous, what kind of coffee? Just a cup of espresso coffee would be pretty full on!

Yes, believe it or not, you understand the core of the issue! That ambiguity was the problem. I'd be in a cafe where the menu said "coffee" and I'd order it with no way of knowing what I was actually going to get until it was in front of me. More often than not in my anecdata, it was a bad Americano. And not a good Americano. A bad one.

I rarely see people order Americanos in Europe, and when they do, they are usually Americans (and actually, the invention and name of the Americano is indeed to please American soldiers who were not used to espresso). Most cafes won't really know what a good Americano is supposed to be because it's unusual to order one and the baristas themselves probably never drink it. A typical customer either wants a tiny cup of pure espresso, or a milk-based drink like a cappuccino.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#562

Post by slothtrop »

eurasiantiger wrote: post #418
slothtrop wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> absolutely destroys the majority of flavors Notwithstanding that this isn't measured whatsoever, it also develops flavor. It's just that it becomes more one-note. You won't taste fruitiness or other delicate things, but I don't want my coffee to taste like fruity tea. Neither do most people.

And that is because the harsh taste is a proxy for how much psychoactive MAO-A-inhibiting beta-carbolines the brew contains. You like it because it gets you more high.

I like it because it tastes better. You don't get to decide why I like something.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#563

Post by SauciestGNU »

NatSydenham wrote: post #514
quickthrower2 wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find the light roasts interesting as opposed to enjoyable. I had one that tasted like orange juice (not as in “notes”, like actual juice!). Medium is my comfort zone though!

The most bizarre coffee I've ever had was from the Papua New Guinea Baroida Estate. STRONG tasting notes of tomato. I thoroughly enjoyed it, but I love weird flavours like that. Very interesting coffee.

I'm drinking some Papua New Guinea right now that I roasted myself, it's dry processed like many Ethiopian coffees are, and it tastes like berries and spice. The different origin flavors that can be found through different processing methods and soil conditions are amazing. There's so much variety. As a hobby roaster I value my relationship with coffee too much to deliberately drink bad stuff.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#564

Post by sgc »

josephcooney wrote: post #472
sgc wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The darkest Italian roast has nothing at all to do with what goes as dark roast - and especially not Italian roast - in the US. The absolute darkest roast I ever saw in Italy was with just a hint of oil showing on the bean, and I only saw that once. They drink a medium roast most of the time, although there are light roasts readily available. I have seen documentaries with Italian roasters from Illy and on down to sm…

please post links...I want to see these documentaries. And completely reject the premise of the article.

They are documentaries I saw on RAI (Italian TV).

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#565

Post by spread_love »

jon_adler wrote: post #486
spread_love wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oft repeated but not true. The commercial processes used to brew cheap beer make it incredibly easy. There weren't a ton of strong flavors to start with and extra steps to remove flavors (ex aging on beechwood) make a consistent result easy. You're using 1 variety of hop, 1 or 2 of barley (or rice), and a battle-tested yeast, no dry-hopping, much easier to control. 100 bbl in a single run then you filter it until it…

Most “cheap” beers use lager yeasts and have subtle flavours by moderating the yeast temperature. Temperature control during fermentation is probably the most important factor, and many new home brewers do not have the equipment to control it yet. Furthermore, ale yeasts are usually happier at room temperature and more forgiving for unexpected flavours (than lager yeasts). So whilst you are right to say cheap commerc…

I'll take a lager from a homebrewer that can't do a decent diacetyl rest is before drinking some macroswill though!

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#566

Post by eutropia »

williamtrask wrote: post #512

To everyone replying with their coffee preferences, you may be missing the point. This post isn’t about coffee, it’s about people and experiences in life being more important than products. It’s about a product’s quality being defined not by its substance but by its reminder of things that can’t be purchased. It’s one of the most beautiful posts I’ve seen in a long time. Hope you look beyond the coffee. Edit: Hope I…

I could write a post about how becoming a coffee snob in college led to True and Lasting Happiness. I’ll dispense with the well-painted scenes and evocative memories and just put it plainly, however.

Once I started making a french press of single origin locally roasted coffee every day, I realized that every single day I could simply be happy. I could make decisions (at a reasonable cost, for Happiness) and enjoy the little things each day. Regardless of how the rest of my day could go, I had my coffee, and I had it my way.

At the time, since it was college, I was reading widely across religions and counter-culture - trying to Figure it All Out - and this daily ritual of making my coffee struck me as a shortcut to gratitude, mindfulness, and existential affirmation. Money may not be able to buy you happiness, but it can buy good coffee - and with the right mindset these are one and the same.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#567

Post by LilBytes »

stephen_g wrote: post #510
LilBytes wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, you lost that mantle years ago. Brisbane reigns king now, Yours LilBytes the pretentious online only coffee snob /s

Brisbane does have amazing coffee. The 'Melbourne has the best coffee' thing is at least ten years out of date, it's mostly just 'Australia has the best coffee' now.

Agreed!

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#568

Post by elefantastisch »

eutropia wrote: post #566
williamtrask wrote: post #512

To everyone replying with their coffee preferences, you may be missing the point. This post isn’t about coffee, it’s about people and experiences in life being more important than products. It’s about a product’s quality being defined not by its substance but by its reminder of things that can’t be purchased. It’s one of the most beautiful posts I’ve seen in a long time. Hope you look beyond the coffee. Edit: Hope I…

I could write a post about how becoming a coffee snob in college led to True and Lasting Happiness. I’ll dispense with the well-painted scenes and evocative memories and just put it plainly, however. Once I started making a french press of single origin locally roasted coffee every day, I realized that every single day I could simply be happy. I could make decisions (at a reasonable cost, for Happiness) and enjoy the…

Rambling warning.

I think there is a lot of overlap in what you're saying and what the article is saying. In both cases, coffee is a means to an end. In contrast, at the beginning of the article, the coffee was the end for the author, not the means. Getting a perfect cup of coffee was the goal, not because it produced gratitude, mindfulness, and existential affirmation, but just as a goal unto itself. This is apparent in the author's realization that the time and money he was spending on coffee wasn't worth it. It was, of course, worth it for the goal of getting the best coffee money can buy, but that isn't actually a meaningful goal.

Your goal is also clearly not to find the best coffee money can buy. Yours is more like experiencing a simple honest pleasure, and fine coffee helps you do that. I don't think that in any way contradicts the author's realization that for them, bonding is the goal, and cheap coffee helps them do that.

I think in many ways the conclusion is the same... don't make things an end unto themselves. Optimizing a thing is a great goal in terms of being specific, measurable, attainable, and all the other things people tell us our goals should be... but if it doesn't actually mean anything, then it doesn't matter if you optimize it. Don't lose sight of what's actually meaningful because you're optimizing some clear metric.

I don't know if I'm making any sense, but I'm really glad you shared this because I think it's a great alternate perspective that still echoes with the same underlying meaning.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#569

Post by curlftpfs »

williamtrask wrote: post #512

To everyone replying with their coffee preferences, you may be missing the point. This post isn’t about coffee, it’s about people and experiences in life being more important than products. It’s about a product’s quality being defined not by its substance but by its reminder of things that can’t be purchased. It’s one of the most beautiful posts I’ve seen in a long time. Hope you look beyond the coffee. Edit: Hope I…

I've shared meaningful experiences with people in life over a flat white in Manhattan though (I didn't order instant coffee). Why dump on the scene, where better for a casual chat than a coffee shop? It's very specific on this point, Maxwell House is mentioned an odd number of times.

Re: The case for bad coffee (2015)

#570

Post by decafninja »

LesZedCB wrote: post #434
crowbahr wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean a really light roast ends up having little flavor besides sour, if you're talking espresso.

no way! i drink exclusively light roast espresso. yes, the sourness is pretty much always there. but there's blueberry (my personal favorite), red berries, tea, lemon, cinnamon. getting a balanced light roast espresso requires going much higher ratio to get a high enough extraction. try upping the temp to 95*C and go for 1:3 or higher.

I've tried and tried to experience the flavor notes you mention across many different coffees from many different roasters, all sorts of brewing methods and settings, but cannot.

I can taste sour, burnt, and something in the middle that I really like, and that's about it.

Not a scientific experiment by any means, but there seems to be more people like me who cannot taste these flavors in coffee than you.

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