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Absurd Trolley Problems

neal.fun

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Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#561

Post by _Algernon_ »

everfree wrote: post #98

I'm surprised to see the popular answer to Question 3. > Oh no! A trolley is heading towards 5 people. You can pull the lever to divert it to the other track, but then your life savings will be destroyed. What do you do? Over 70% chose to pull the lever and destroy their life savings. People die of preventable causes in developing countries today. By choosing not to donate your life savings today to help them, you ar…

If you are early in life your life savings may be negligible. If you interpret it as net-worth it may even be a benefit if you have student loans.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#562

Post by Markoff »

mcv wrote: post #413
Markoff wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any proof wearing a mask save ANY lives? People talk about this as if it were some fact, it's usually same people believing safe and effective vaccines, who quickly forgot vaccines were supposed to stop transmission, stop symptoms, they just keep pushing goal posts, while reality if you look at stats in highly vaxxed countries is that vaccines do really nothing anymore.

You spread a lot less virus if you wear a mask. Cheap masks don't protect you, but they do protect others from you. Countries where everybody immediately wore masks had far less cases than those where a lot of people didn't. The whole mask issue was the ultimate test in altruism: do you accept slight inconvenience that might save other people's lives? A lot of people failed.

Masks work only in the lab when worn PROPERLY at ALL ocassions, never meeting strangers without mask, good luck with that. In real life people have to eat without mask and they won't wear it at home or often in work etc. or they don't wear them properly anyway with gaps around.

So yeah, masks work in theory, but reality shown us they are completely useless, especially with newer more infectious variants. If they were such great invention we would not have flu and other respiratory viruses, in the end everyone will get infected anyway.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#563

Post by utucuro »

red75prime wrote: post #371
tmlb wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would your answer change if you were stuck on the trolley quite literally for eternity, rather than just the remainder of your biological life?

> stuck on the trolley quite literally for eternity What "literally" means in this case? Am I completely certain that I'll be stuck on the trolley for eternity? I would think that I'm having a psychotic break and delay my decision.

Literally, as in, if a passenger finds a way of getting out of the trolley somehow, they will be put back in so the thought experiment can continue working as intended. Absurd amendment to an absurd trolley problem.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#565

Post by mensetmanusman »

frognumber wrote: post #283
kazinator wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember that around 12% preferred that someone die, rather than their Amazon package being late.

I suspect around 12% preferred to read the problems but always click the same choice to avoid giving away PII. A quarter probably did that, considering both options.

12% no, probably 0.012%

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#566

Post by Silica6149 »

belter wrote: post #477

Lots of additional fun at Neal's page... My favorite is the Life Checklist and the Size of Space. https://neal.fun/size-of-space/ https://neal.fun/ten-years-ago/ https://neal.fun/lets-settle-this/ https://neal.fun/ambient-chaos/ https://neal.fun/spend/ https://neal.fun/who-was-alive/ https://neal.fun/life-checklist/ https://neal.fun/dark-patterns/

Anyone know what tools he uses for the animations, like the size of space one?

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#567

Post by Markoff »

FartyMcFarter wrote: post #383
Markoff wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any proof wearing a mask save ANY lives? People talk about this as if it were some fact, it's usually same people believing safe and effective vaccines, who quickly forgot vaccines were supposed to stop transmission, stop symptoms, they just keep pushing goal posts, while reality if you look at stats in highly vaxxed countries is that vaccines do really nothing anymore.

Vaccines decrease the severity of disease.

Numbers of vaxxed vs unvaxxed hospitalized (per capita in same group) don't confirm this disinformation spread by pharma companies and their paid politicians.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#568

Post by smeej »

_Algernon_ wrote: post #556

Got a kill count of 84. Had a pretty heavy bias against making an active choice so you could get a much lower count.

I had a total bias against intervening to change the path of the trolley toward one or more people (regardless of what was on the other track), but also a bias toward action if something other than a person could be run over instead, and I only got 69.

I'm surprised that "saved" 15 people compared to a bias toward inaction in general.

Re: Absurd Trolley Problems

#570

Post by addandsubtract »

Silica6149 wrote: post #557
jgerrish wrote: post #363

This kind of highlights a subtle interactive design or user experience component of the Trolley problem. Part of the Trolley Problem is that the choice is between an action or inaction. But these problems, or the first one at least, have two buttons. So you're making a choice. Yeah, some might argue it's a technicality. But what if you put the Do Nothing choice on a timer? What if you made it an asynchronous "Problem…

Another point is that a lot of these scenarios are easy for us to think through, but to be in the actual situation and physically push someone/something and potentially see someone die would make a lot more of us indecisive.

I only find this true when there's someone I know at stake. If the choice is between 1 or 5 random people, I'm going to save the 5 people 100% of the time. If that 1 person happens to be a family member or best friend, that choice is going to be a lot harder and potentially different in the actual situation.
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