Lately, the only metric I've been using to decide if I want to work at a company is "is the team competent"?
If I get a vibe that too many people are, for lack of a better word, dumb assholes, I just won't take the offer.
Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
561–570 of 794 posts
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#562Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing with 4hr technical assignments is that you're saying no to anyone with kids, which I'm going to venture applies to more senior people than juniors. I used to do these assignment. Now I simply don't sorry. My schedule is 6:30 AM wake up with youngest daughter, to let wife sleep in (she takes care of her all night) 9:00 AM hand off youngest daughter to wife, who takes both girls the rest of the day. I go to m…
> perhaps pay people to complete the assignments. Assuming this is legal at all according to current employment contracts, it's a huge pain for the new employer's payroll and more stuff to keep track for the employee's income tax.
I once applied somewhere that had a 20 minute pre interview test thing. They rejected me after the test but gave me $50 free credit for their service (sticker printing). I was reasonably pleased with the stack of stickers I received.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#563Earlier quoted context omitted.
Absolutely agree. People with 10+ years, a good network and decent resume pop their head up above the parapet and get instantly mobbed with offers. They're on the market 2 weeks, tops. No-one good is going to do a takehome just so the hiring team can rub their beards and feel superior while they pick over the code. That approach worked a few years ago, in today's recruitment bear market you don't pick the candidates,…
> They're on the market 2 weeks, tops. My last search lasted 9 days from when I put out the signal to having interviewed (for 3 companies) and negotiated an offer and submitted my resignation and 2 weeks notice.
Three days. Three interviews. Three offers. Three short, brief chats about the problem. Done.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#564Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing with 4hr technical assignments is that you're saying no to anyone with kids, which I'm going to venture applies to more senior people than juniors. I used to do these assignment. Now I simply don't sorry. My schedule is 6:30 AM wake up with youngest daughter, to let wife sleep in (she takes care of her all night) 9:00 AM hand off youngest daughter to wife, who takes both girls the rest of the day. I go to m…
> 11:00 PM sleep until 6:30 the next day Dude, if your wife is getting up multiple times a night, you really ought to consider stepping in and helping out. True males can't do the feeding, but if there is anyway you can help out with this, I guarantee your wife will be grateful. If your kids sleep then ignore this, but sleep deprivation is hell (to most people). My wife and I both worked and we slept in 4 hour shifts…
My wife doesn't work. I sleep with our older daughter. My wife and baby co-sleep. Babies sleep much better when they're nursing, but it does mean my wife gets more interrupted sleep, which is made up for by the amount of sleep she gets each night, which is much more than me.
This arrangement works for our marriage. We made a conscious decision early on to not both work.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#565Earlier quoted context omitted.
The thing with 4hr technical assignments is that you're saying no to anyone with kids, which I'm going to venture applies to more senior people than juniors. I used to do these assignment. Now I simply don't sorry. My schedule is 6:30 AM wake up with youngest daughter, to let wife sleep in (she takes care of her all night) 9:00 AM hand off youngest daughter to wife, who takes both girls the rest of the day. I go to m…
Funny how similar our days are! There is however the weekend for stuff like this. I assume an interested employer would be willing to allow that.
Sure, I could potentially do this on the weekend, but would still require work. For religious reasons, I do not work on Sunday and I make no exceptions. Sunday is for socializing with family and friends and doing nothing.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#566Why isn’t the salary posted in the ad?
Many companies don’t do this but it could be something to set yourself apart.
We used to do takehomes but now we let the candidate choose if they want to do a take home or do a pair programming session in the interview.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#567Earlier quoted context omitted.
As something of a counterpoint, a literal 4-hour assignment isn't that bad--especially as an alternative to a day of interviews. If they give you the assignment and it's immediately obvious that it's actually a 20+ hour assignment, you can always just walk. When I worked for a technology analyst company, we would ask for writing samples--which most potential hires would already have. But, if someone didn't, they'd ha…
> As something of a counterpoint, a literal 4-hour assignment isn't that bad--especially as an alternative to a day of interviews. As a counter counterpoint, that only makes sense if the candidate is applying to a single place. If the candidate has lined up 4 interviews, they're not going to get 16 hours in the week to complete them. The fifth place that has no 4 hour interviews will get the candidate.
The last time I was actively looking for a job (instead of being recruited via my network), was in 2016. Looking at my spreadsheet, I was somewhere in the process of interviewing (phone screen -> in person -> waiting for an offer) for 15 different companies. Why would I ever have jumped through hoops if they were all paying about the same.
I took the first one that met my compensation/technology/commute requirements. Back then, one Enterprise CRUD job looked like any other.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
> When I worked for a technology analyst company, we would ask for writing samples--which most potential hires would already have. But, if someone didn't, they'd have to create one. I have a github/gitlab full of code. You want to check it? Go for it. Happy to provide a portfolio on demand. Make me write an api client..? No, get lost.
I'm with you on this. If you don't have a repo you can share, then a take home exercise seems like a reasonable alternative. Its about being respectful on peoples time, while still recognising the need to 'validate' claims of experience.
I didn’t have any open source work from 1996-2020. What I did have was the an active network and the ability to dig deep when asked about my prior projects/accomplishments.
If I ever pivoted back to pure software development and wanted to get a comparably compensated position at a large tech company would a jump through the DS&A grind - yes. But to work for a startup that offered meh compensation and meaningless “equity” - no.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#569The process looks okay. But your post still lack crucial details.
What has always been the most important factors for all decent engineers I know:
1. What exactly do you do (what’s the mission, the goal, the challenge)
2. The compensation
If these 2 are good - we can bear any meaningful interview process, and many even prefer home assignments to nonrealistic pressure of on-site interviews.
If not - nobody actually cares if interview process is great.
Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it
#570> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.
I would not do homework on principle. Life is too short and the company doesn't know how to hire senior people.