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Ask HN: Is anyone else glad the crypto market is crashing?

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Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else glad the crypto market is crashing?

#561

Post by cdiddy2 »

Mehringotio wrote: post #528
cdiddy2 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about when clean energy is negatively priced would you be ok using bitcoin miners to make it more economical then?

No. Bitcoin would still compete for other things which are much more critical toost people on our planet. Things like a storage battery. Or melting aluminum or other ors.

Things like a storage battery - we already have a battery shortage with not enough to power electric car manufacturing.

Or melting aluminum or other ors - this doesn't work because the load is extremely fickle. You have to be able to turn on/off easily and frequently.

other things can certainly come along and compete for the power. Its not like bitcoin mining isn't price bound. It always seeks the cheapest energy regardless of location

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else glad the crypto market is crashing?

#562

Post by giantrobot »

NotAnEnemy wrote: post #324
gsibble wrote: post #98

I feel bad for people losing money, but crypto has not lived up to its potential at all, remains a solution looking for a problem, and is an environmental disaster. I used to be a huge believer. Brian Armstrong gave me my first Bitcoin in 2011 at District in SOMA. Electricity was included in my rent so I bought 10 video cards and mined for about two years on 5 systems. At a company I founded, I use Bitcoin to pay for…

I will probably trade my karma for this comment, but have you looked into other protocols ? You mention the processing fees and the finality time, I've heard of several projects that are already better than Ethereum on this such as Hedera Hashgraph, Avalanche or Algorand. Saying that "crypto has not lived up to its potential at all" merely 12 years after Satoshi mined the first bitcoin is laughable if anything. It to…

> It took 15 years of the internet to have Facebook. It took 27 years (!!) of the internet to have something like TikTok.

That's an amazingly ridiculous statement. There's been bulletin boards and chat on the Internet about as long as it has existed. All manner of utility has existed on the Internet since the beginning. Neither Facebook nor TikTok were required for the Internet to be useful.

The best uses for cryptocurrency are speculation and crime. Even the speculation requires some amount of criminality because speculators only get a payout if more rubes "invest".

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else glad the crypto market is crashing?

#563

Post by nwiswell »

eric_cc wrote: post #558
nwiswell wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not clear on the logic here to be perfectly honest, even if I broadly agree that the real innovation with Bitcoin died when it was clear it would never be a currency. But gold is also a commodity, and I don't think I've ever heard it called a pyramid scheme.

> when it was clear it would never be a currency But it IS a currency.. It is uses for daily payments and legally considered a currency in multiple countries today. I fully expect that list to balloon up over time. You're talking about USA in 2022 and not the rest of the world or the future.

Turns out it doesn't matter if the currency is trustless if you still have to trust your counterparty anyhow. In fact it's worse in most cases, since you can't seek recourse from trusted financial intermediaries (chargeback, etc).

For 99.9% of daily cash-equivalent transactions it is significantly clunkier than the new "FinTech" solutions: Venmo, CashApp, Zelle, etc. For purchases, credit cards generally actually offer a kickback so it's not even a contest.

El Salvador gave everyone $30 of free bitcoin. What happened afterward speaks volumes.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else glad the crypto market is crashing?

#564

Post by can16358p »

colesantiago wrote: post #490
can16358p wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I supported Ukraine with crypto. (in I've bought actual stuff I liked on Internet with crypto (the only other option was PayPal which is blocked in my country). There is sure a lot of dirty things going on on crypto but there are definitely totally legitimate use cases. You can gamble with fiat, you can gamble with crypto. You can donate/buy with fiat, you can donate/buy with crypto. I'm an opportunist who is in web3…

A poor excuse to use a useless and broken system for after 15+ years is still slow at sending payments (which is supposedly the primary usecase) and is incinerating the planet doing useless computations just for fake tokens. No thanks at all, a system that does this needs to be destroyed.

Well, ironic that that "useless" and "broken" system is the only or the fastest way for many use cases.

Perhaps you can try to understand the actual problems that it's solving.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else glad the crypto market is crashing?

#565

Post by Zetaphor »

dropnerd wrote: post #543
Zetaphor wrote: post #514

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing more annoying than people talking about crypto is people complaining about people talking about crypto. You're just perpetuating the attention cycle. I've been DCA'ing ETH for a few years now and have somehow managed to both not make it my entire identity, and not constantly complain about the people who do. The only time I hear about crypto outside of my crypto-specific social spheres is people dunkin…

where are the builders? are they even on hn anymore?

I wouldn't be surprised if they got tired of the constant negativity when anything related to crypto is mentioned.

I thought this was supposed to be a forum of like minded people interested in technology and its potential applications. Ever since the start of this last bull market it's felt incredibly hostile to anyone even remotely interested in blockchains and related tech. Maybe it's always been like this, I've only been here a couple years.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else glad the crypto market is crashing?

#567

Post by cdiddy2 »

Mehringotio wrote: post #538
cdiddy2 wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with your point on economic value. But on other uses of the energy you can't really do these things, desalinization - in the middle of the country with no salt water plus inconsistent energy metal smelting - doesn't work with rapid turning on/off direct air carbon capture - doesn't work with rapid turning on/off Bitcoin miners can be turned on/off quickly and don't require much infrastructure except an intern…

Exactly! Bitcoin incentive to NOT make it viable. Instead of putting a Powerline there or building a smelter or something else, Bitcoin is easier and makes more money quicker. This is not a good thing right now this is still bad. And as soon as you have Bitcoin mining there, no one wants to underutilize it because it is inefficient. Now your miner is motivated to run even more and get more money Do you really believe…

Do you really believe a Bitcoin miner would accept being shut down for most of the day? - yes, as the hardware cycles have slowed down this has become more and more viable to use old hardware some of the time.

Instead of putting a Powerline there or building a smelter or something else, Bitcoin is easier and makes more money quicker. - I assume there is already a powerline to any wind/solar farm. The issue is the negative priced electricity. If you can't compete with a bitcoin miner that is always seeking the cheapest electricity regardless of location then maybe your project isn't economically viable. Its not like miners have a monopoly, just agree to pay more than they are willing to pay

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else glad the crypto market is crashing?

#568

Post by colesantiago »

can16358p wrote: post #564
colesantiago wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A poor excuse to use a useless and broken system for after 15+ years is still slow at sending payments (which is supposedly the primary usecase) and is incinerating the planet doing useless computations just for fake tokens. No thanks at all, a system that does this needs to be destroyed.

Well, ironic that that "useless" and "broken" system is the only or the fastest way for many use cases. Perhaps you can try to understand the actual problems that it's solving.

Such as being the fastest way to do gambling and speculation which the majority of people are using it for. 'DeFi' projects that gets hacked all the time with people losing their money in all cases.

Pretty useless and broken for anything else, because it is not solving anything than useless blockchain puzzles that we both know are no good for the earth.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else glad the crypto market is crashing?

#569

Post by can16358p »

colesantiago wrote: post #568
can16358p wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, ironic that that "useless" and "broken" system is the only or the fastest way for many use cases. Perhaps you can try to understand the actual problems that it's solving.

Such as being the fastest way to do gambling and speculation which the majority of people are using it for. 'DeFi' projects that gets hacked all the time with people losing their money in all cases. Pretty useless and broken for anything else, because it is not solving anything than useless blockchain puzzles that we both know are no good for the earth.

Well I've already gave perfectly valid examples from my own life, and you keep telling that it's only for gambling (which is a valid use case too anyway).

I don't have any more time to waste with non-open mindeds.

Re: Ask HN: Is anyone else glad the crypto market is crashing?

#570

Post by InitialLastName »

eric_cc wrote: post #556
InitialLastName wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least in theory, stocks and housing are underpinned by intrinsic assets (i.e. things that exist in the real world and/or intersubjective agreements whose value and status are enforced by people with guns). Crypto doesn't have that quality even hypothetically (except to the extent that people insist it does), which pushes it toward the same category as many of the well-known financial scams (which were characterize…

> Crypto doesn't have that quality even hypothetically And does paper fiat have intrinsic value? Bitcoin is trustless money. It's mindblowingly amazing that we now have trustless money. We've never ever had that before. That is the value.

> And does paper fiat have intrinsic value?

Yes, to the extent that people with guns will enforce its value (as I mentioned above).

> Bitcoin is trustless money. It's mindblowingly amazing that we now have trustless money. We've never ever had that before. That is the value.

You'll have to forgive me if I disagree that "mindblowingly amazing" constitutes "intrinsic value".

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