Earlier quoted context omitted.
> The simple answer is to reject the cashless society. No, that battle is lost. Cashless is easier and more convenient, it's hard to beat that. We need more constitutional human rights. It's not okay to take or freeze somebody's money/property without any court decision. Edit: some of the answers assume that I'm against cash or that by saying "battle is lost" I mean cash is gone; My point of "cashless winning" is tha…
I had my only personal UK bank account frozen without warning for weeks. The first I knew of it was when the call centre wouldnt answer the phone for 45mins from the shop where I had just tried to use the card. Had to abandon the process and go home. Next morning, call the bank call centre, do security get told they cant talk to me. The processes to get the account activated was interesting, I couldnt complain to the…
In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
561–570 of 849 posts
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#562Earlier quoted context omitted.
Shrug. I guess my note book is less "convenient" than notepad.exe. More moving parts. We're just not on the same page here, sorry, I don't get it at all. It's like, are we counting the waves of the hands or what? I'm literally here now and I've just pressed about 300 buttons to write this message, are movements rationed?
If you're going to argue that one thing is easier than another, then yes, counting movements and time is part of that. "That'll be $15.77" Option 1: I look in my wallet and find a ten and a five, put my hand in my pocket and grab a few coins, hand those over. The cashier takes the cash, taps a number into the till, finds the right change and hands it back. Is it arduous, hard labour and the end of the world? No of co…
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#563Cash is important not only because (as others have said) it is a mature, near perfect technology that provides fluidity, anonymity etc. It's important because it's a distributable store of highly resilient wealth.
Physical cash is one of the greatest defences a society has against total civil disintegration - the kind of "worst fears" we are all terrified of when the pandemic or Capitol riots were looming. People in the streets with guns killing each other over a loaf of bread. It's the sort of thing we worry EMP attacks, nuclear war, overnight hyper-inflation would bring. When chaos comes it can come very quick.
One of the surest and fastest routes to a totally precarious civilisation is to create a "cashless society" than runs on these highly unstable and very new-fangled things we call computers (we've had them "properly" for about 20 or 30 years).
Imagine that there is no physical cash at all. Cash acts as a buffer, like power-supply smoothing capacitors. One day the systems all switch off (a very likely scenario (some time - we don't know when) by all cyber-threat accounts). Modern people, within one or two generations, are losing the ability to value or barter things, or do simple mental arithmetic in many cases. That level of dependency is catastrophic. Fortunately we still teach how to add up money and caculate change at schools.
When no-one can buy food, and no-one can fuel vehicles because the "system is down", watch it all descend into madness within 24 hours. And no, the police/national-guard won't help. They'll all be shitting themselves too and worrying about their families, getting paid.
Ayn Rand (not someone I am very fond of) made at least a few rather intelligent philosophical observations, one of which is that (I paraphrase) "money is a peace-keeping instrument". Cash gives a society it's own form of distributed "power" which allows a momentum of local exchange and flexibility. There only needs to be a few tens of millions in circulation. Right now most folk have a few hundred bucks at home or on their person. Without it your fallback is, within days, only people who have stores of gold, medicines and weapons being fucntional. That might be great for "preppy" survivalist types, but it's not a world I'd like to live in.
Any government that eliminates physical cash entirely would be clinically insane and playing a very, very dangerous game. Given all the cyber-threats movement toward a "cashless society" is utterly premature from a safety perspective, regardless any social politics.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#564Earlier quoted context omitted.
A few months ago, it cost $4 in BTC transaction fees alone to buy a $2 bottle of soda. Last spring, it cost $60 in transaction fees to buy a $2 bottle of soda.
You did not mention the Lightning Network, where fees are negligible. You cannot seriously research on bitcoin without coming across the Lightning Network.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#565Trudeau's bank account freeze is the reason why the next time I'll be in the United States, I'll open a US bank account and transfer some savings there. (I'm a European, and not a US person). I've heard that US banks are extremely friendly to non-residents (at least the ones who know to deal with them and hand out a W8-BEN form to fill) Then my money will be safe. Unless I piss off the United States Federal Governmen…
You are also required to disclose any such US accounts to your european financial institutions that you work with.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#566Trudeau's bank account freeze is the reason why the next time I'll be in the United States, I'll open a US bank account and transfer some savings there. (I'm a European, and not a US person). I've heard that US banks are extremely friendly to non-residents (at least the ones who know to deal with them and hand out a W8-BEN form to fill) Then my money will be safe. Unless I piss off the United States Federal Governmen…
As a non US-resident with a US bank account, I think you are vastly underestimating how difficult it is to actually achieve this. You are also required to disclose any such US accounts to your european financial institutions that you work with.
This was some years ago though, but assuming not much has changed, I don't think it'd be too difficult.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#567The simple answer is to reject the cashless society. In the medium to long term it's simply incompatible with any reasonable definition of freedom. Surveillance is bad enough, but a system that allows governments to arbitrarily "turn off" thousands or millions of people at the push of a button is too powerful to not be abused. Even the mere existence of such a system has a chilling effect. Which I suspect is precisel…
> The simple answer is to reject the cashless society. Very much this. It is disappointing and scary to see tech people, of all groups, who like this idea. Cash is a perfect currency. It is strictly peer to peer, fully fungible, can't be blocked or censored by any party, anonymous, has no dependency on anything (still works when the electricity and internet are down).
In common practice it's fungible in the sense that one twenty dollar bill is as good as another. In edge cases though it's not quite fully fungible.
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think you are forgetting a few key details: 1.) You are taking a government's word for it. As a US citizen, I can tell you that you should never, ever do this. My attitude with any governing entity is to trust but verify. If they don't provide a way to verify, assume they are lying. I'm a former Department of Defense and intelligence contractor. My experience working with these entities hardened my attitude to neve…
As a Canadian it’s like living with a bunch of lunatics and I can not believe so many people are okay with this. All I can say is I will never miss an election again. We need Trudeau gone badly but he has a lot of support from the east and no other party is positioned to beat him in an election. The ndp have sided with him on so many things I can no longer vote for them and the choices are limited.
What things you feel make people lunatics in this case?
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#569Earlier quoted context omitted.
> No, that battle is lost. Cashless is easier and more convenient. Incorrect, the battle is partly won in several U.S. cities (including NYC & SF) which passed laws to mandate acceptance of cash. However, cash-acceptance laws were mostly motivated by the unbanked, who are now being used to justify the introduction of nation-state CBDCs. China's CBDC is two-tier and preserves retail bank competition. People close to t…
> Incorrect, the battle is partly won... Not in the slightest. You can mandate that people accept cash, but you can't force people to pay with it. The writing is on the wall; barring some sort of major social upheaval, cashless will be more dominant in the future. It's just too convenient. So let's figure out what kind of benign future we actually can build. "Everyone decides to use cash again" just isn't going to ha…
Re: In our cashless society, we need to take digital jail seriously
#570Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you pay taxes in cash? I don't think it's possible in my country.
Paying taxes in cash is almost the most important core thing. It's utter violation of basic concepts of fiat currency for that not to be possible. The whole point of cash is that it is legal tender, and it has to be acceptable for taxes. Any country that violates this is really denying the basic concept of cash.