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Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

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Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#561

Post by sherry-sherry »

thepasswordis wrote: post #513

There are too many people making making similar comments to reply to all of them, so I'm going to make a top level response to all of them. The truckers are NOT protesting against the vaccine itself, and if you believe that they are, I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news. The truckers are protesting the idea that the government can force them to take the vaccine against their will. I would h…

Abortion is not in any way comparable with this issue. Do not try and force some 'common ground' argument where is isn't one.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#562

Post by _3u10 »

Zanneth wrote: post #541
epgui wrote: post #494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the few who don’t comply to public health recommendations/orders are responsible for the greater share of the economic burden of disease, and this burden was totally preventable.

That is not true at all. The greatest burden on the economy was the lockdowns and extreme countermeasures. People choosing not to get vaccinated may have caused unnecessary burden on the healthcare system, but to blame them for the struggling economy is just wrong.

Exactly. In Canada, $40,000 per person was spent on lockdowns most of which went to large companies posting record profits. Zilch on making an ICU room for every Canadian which is what that money could have bought should it have been spent responsibly.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#563

Post by _3u10 »

harryf wrote: post #433
jsjsbdkj wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no "loss of mandate". The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Canadians re-elected Trudeau during the pandemic. The issue is that Ottawa Police were afraid of media backlash if they did any crowd control for the initial "protest" weekend. This allowed the occupiers to move in heavy machinery as barricades. When the weekend ended an…

> It has terrorized women, queer people and people of color on the streets. Seriously? This smells like an attempt to paint the truckers as extreme right. Any quality sources for that claim?

No post body was provided.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#564

Post by abletonlive »

thepasswordis wrote: post #513

There are too many people making making similar comments to reply to all of them, so I'm going to make a top level response to all of them. The truckers are NOT protesting against the vaccine itself, and if you believe that they are, I would highly encourage you to find different sources for news. The truckers are protesting the idea that the government can force them to take the vaccine against their will. I would h…

Well then the truckers are idiots, because nobody is forcing them to get the vaccine. They must if they want to cross the border. So just don't cross the border and step aside for someone else who will.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#565

Post by data-ottawa »

andrew_ wrote: post #411

The number of comments on this that are just fine with wild authoritarian abuses like this "because vaccines are good" is astounding. People have such idealogical myopia and are shocked and appalled when the same measures are used against their interests.

I would argue that you’re misconstruing things.

We Canadians had a fairly single issue election in the fall around vaccine mandates and the Liberal party won. The question is not “are mandates allowed” but “can a group be allowed to take cities hostage while trying to overthrow democratic rule.” The issuing of mandates was not even passed through fiat like an American executive order, this government is a minority government and at least one other party must support them to pass legislation.

One man’s authoritarianism view can be another man’s view of the state protecting it’s people. There certainly should be limits, but our election was highly focused on determining those limits (whether you like the FPTP system or not).

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#566

Post by dmix »

airmailspecial wrote: post #424
armagon wrote: post #332

> 5:05 p.m. > Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he has invoked the Emergencies Act as a “last resort” to bolster the police response to convoy demonstrators and to “bring the situation fully under control.” I really feel like there were a number of "resorts" that could've been taken before this "last" one. Engaging in dialogue with the truckers and not inflaming the situation by calling the truckers names are at the…

> Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said he has invoked the Emergencies Act as a “last resort” to bolster the police response to convoy demonstrators and to “bring the situation fully under control.” What was the "first resort"? Trudeau isn't even willing to speak with the protesters. >There is still no indication Trudeau is willing to sit down or speak to convoy participants. He said he doesn’t regret describing those t…

So he's tried nothing and it's not working?

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#567

Post by ibeckermayer »

jsjsbdkj wrote: post #538
daenz wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The Canadian people are overwhelmingly vaccinated and don't mind wearing masks. 90+% of truckers are fully vaccinated. Then why require the mandate? I haven't seen any answer to that question besides the implied: "because we demand full compliance."

Do you understand how public health works? The vaccine does not 100% prevent any infection, it reduces the odds and intensity. Some people cannot be vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons. You would think computer people would understand "defense in depth". Meanwhile, anti-vaccine people are single-handedly working to revive diseases that were almost eradicated: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2019/03/2…

No post body was provided.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#568

Post by dmix »

data-ottawa wrote: post #565
andrew_ wrote: post #411

The number of comments on this that are just fine with wild authoritarian abuses like this "because vaccines are good" is astounding. People have such idealogical myopia and are shocked and appalled when the same measures are used against their interests.

I would argue that you’re misconstruing things. We Canadians had a fairly single issue election in the fall around vaccine mandates and the Liberal party won. The question is not “are mandates allowed” but “can a group be allowed to take cities hostage while trying to overthrow democratic rule.” The issuing of mandates was not even passed through fiat like an American executive order, this government is a minority go…

> 62.3% turnout

> 32.62% voted for Trudeau

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_Canadian_federal_election

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#569

Post by hluska »

pomdapi wrote: post #427
akerl_ wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seizing funds from criminals to restrict their ability to perpetrate and profit from crime is a tool used by law enforcement in essentially every country, and has been happening for a long time. There’s plenty of areas of this that are misused (see things like civil asset forfeiture), but the overarching strategy of freezing bank accounts isn’t novel or dystopian. Edit: it’s a bit sneaky to change “AT ALL” to “WITHOU…

Yeah, but in most countries there is due process in front of a judge to do that. You can't just have the executive decide they can do that using pure administrative action to seize property. Also, you generally also have to prove in a court of law there was a crime before you can do anything at all. The US civilian asset forfeiture (and now in Canada too, it seems) are actually quite unique in that regard outside of…

Note that this is not asset forfeiture. The order only authorizes financially institutions to temporarily freeze accounts if they suspect they’re being used to fund illegal blockades. They can temporarily freeze accounts without a court order without any fear of legal liability.

That’s it. It’s a time out, not a forfeiture. The Emergency Act is powerful, but this invocation isn’t that powerful.

Re: Trudeau Invokes Emergencies Act

#570

Post by jsjsbdkj »

bawolff wrote: post #479
vorpalhex wrote: post #8

> The Emergencies Act is the modern-day replacement to the War Measures Act. It allows the federal government to force companies to provide services, it can require public protests to end, and limit mobility rights by preventing people from moving to designating areas. > > The act also allows for the military to be used as police, but several sources said that is not under active consideration. Not a good look for Tr…

> This definitely looks like an authoritarian response to a loss of mandate. He has a minority government. A weak one at that. If he really lost his mandate there would be a snap election already.

On COVID issues the NDP, Bloc and Libs are aligned which is a significant majority. Also we just had an election and nothing changed. The Liberals with a minority is actually an indication that Canada wants to be further left than Trudeau, but we haven't gotten there yet.
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