Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

on.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 606 posts

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#561

Post by marcus_holmes »

geraneum wrote: post #455
marcus_holmes wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm watching "Dopesick" at the moment, and I'm beginning to understand why people don't trust medical professionals and Big Pharma. Any call to trust journalists should be met with hoots of derision - I've worked with journalists and they (as a general rule) are not interested in "the truth", or in balance, but in creating a good story that will generate interest and go over well on Twitter. There is a fundamental co…

In most dictatorships, many journalists are usually horribly mistreated. They get jailed, “commit” suicide, or vanish i.e. NK, Iran, Belarus, etc. Unfortunately those governments’ tone and narrative is similar to what you’re saying here (based on my personal experience). Don’t get me wrong, I am not implying you are the same or you have the same intentions. It’s a different context. But this narrative, without rootin…

I agree (except, having also had personal experience of this situation, I think journalists do overplay the personal danger bit).

The cause is exactly what you say: the incentives are all wrong for accurate investigative journalism, which is what we need to keep the powerful uncorrupted. Unfortunately this is because the internet destroyed the business model for news, and there's no putting that genie back in the bottle. We need a new business model for investigative journalism, and while plenty of people are trying (including Substack in the article, who seem to be doing OK), none have really cracked it.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#562

Post by syshum »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #546
syshum wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I’m sorry but this is utter nonsense. Clinton conceded right away and notably did not urge her supporters to storm the Capitol to “rectify” the results. And regarding governors, recall that most of the swing states were under republican control. Edit: I noticed now you gave the Russian connection as the example. Russian interference was indeed the case. Many people were angry at that but there’s an important differen…

I’m sorry but this is utter nonsense. Clinton is not a populist, she part of the establishment, her method of subversion was and is through the institutions themselves, i.e using the media, and the deep state to do the work not the people. Her power base is not the common man or woman.

As to the republican governors, you seem to have confused me with a republican, I am not a supporter of either side of the uniparty coin. I am an actual anti-establishment type, not one that is only anti-establishment when my "tribe" is not in power, or when the "other side" of the uniparty is in power. I am anti-estblishment 24/7, no matter if it is republican or democrat

I was no fan of Trump, never voted for him infact (nor Clinton or biden, or obama, or bush, or ....)

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#563

Post by markdown »

Gareth321 wrote: post #264
markdown wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They sell a product that potentially puts people in real danger. Choosing not to wear a mask is fine. An immunocompromised person can choose to cross the street when they see you. This product, allowing you to pretend to wear a mask in order to get close to people that don't want to be near maskless people is evil. And a "Rittenhouse Walks" t-shirt? I'm glad they've been de-platformed. Good riddance!

This is a great example of censorship aligning with your biases. Today. A central theme to the discussion here is that, tomorrow, this censorship will likely not align with your biases. How will you feel about it then? We have millennia of practical examples of the fact that ceding the power to speak will always hurt us all in the end. It will eventually be used to silence you and whatever you believe is moral and ju…

I hate to break it to you, but that was decided a long time ago, and we all agree to live by the biases of the majority.

You don't want child porn on television at 7pm, do you?

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#564

Post by mint2 »

mns wrote: post #289
mint2 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

if the problem is our culture trusting experts, perhaps we need some sort of revolution to get rid of those experts and elite, and turn to populism mass movements. Hold that thought, I seem to remember some historical trials of that path. How did they go? Strange how they ended up with even more censorship.

Too bad that most of these experts you're talking about are sociopathic and egotistical growth hackers and nutritionists who overnight ended up being epidemiologists just because it helped them grow their brand.

So you’re saying we need people specialized in telling which experts are legit? Experts on experts, like yourself. Isn’t that relying on experts too?

I’m confused are experts good or bad or are we just supposed to castigate all of them since random people on the internet know better.

I’d rather an internet mob doesn’t decide the legitimacy of respecting experts especially when showing such an ignorance of other instances in the past when society at large turned on experts.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#565

Post by tapas73 »

Kye wrote: post #505
joshuahughes wrote: post #501

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"stock up and stay home while the virus dies off" Given the existence of animal reservoirs, short-lived immunity, asymptomatic carriers, continued transmission after vaccination, and the genetic instability of SARS-CoV-2, this seems like an incredibly naive view. The only virus we've been able to eradicate — smallpox — was a VERY different beast because it had none of the issues listed above.

We've spent trillions on all kinds of naive nonsense. What's the worst that could happen, people get a month off and the line goes up thanks to all the stimulus? Oh, the horror. Mindless cynicism is not the virtuous alternative to optimism. We can do nothing and watch as our health care system continues to collapse or do something . Maybe this isn't it, but you haven't offered a better idea. It's easy to tear people…

Not all ideas are worth pursuing. Continuing as-is most of the time (like 99.99%) is the appropriate choice. Do you move every time a stranger on TV/street suggests that?

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#566

Post by Swenrekcah »

syshum wrote: post #562
Swenrekcah wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry but this is utter nonsense. Clinton conceded right away and notably did not urge her supporters to storm the Capitol to “rectify” the results. And regarding governors, recall that most of the swing states were under republican control. Edit: I noticed now you gave the Russian connection as the example. Russian interference was indeed the case. Many people were angry at that but there’s an important differen…

I’m sorry but this is utter nonsense. Clinton is not a populist, she part of the establishment, her method of subversion was and is through the institutions themselves, i.e using the media, and the deep state to do the work not the people. Her power base is not the common man or woman. As to the republican governors, you seem to have confused me with a republican, I am not a supporter of either side of the uniparty c…

I don’t disagree that Clinton is as establishment as it gets and there were a lot of reasons to not want her in office.

I’m just triggered by the false equivalency, because unlikeable elite as she may be, her politics are more like treatable cancer for democracy whereas Trumps is like acute lead poisoning.

The reason I mentioned the republican governors wasn’t to suggest you were a member, rather to suggest that if we did think those states performed election fraud then we’d expect it to be in favour of the Republican Party, right?

Regardless of all that I hope you have a great weekend :)

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#567

Post by syshum »

Swenrekcah wrote: post #566
syshum wrote: post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m sorry but this is utter nonsense. Clinton is not a populist, she part of the establishment, her method of subversion was and is through the institutions themselves, i.e using the media, and the deep state to do the work not the people. Her power base is not the common man or woman. As to the republican governors, you seem to have confused me with a republican, I am not a supporter of either side of the uniparty c…

I don’t disagree that Clinton is as establishment as it gets and there were a lot of reasons to not want her in office. I’m just triggered by the false equivalency, because unlikeable elite as she may be, her politics are more like treatable cancer for democracy whereas Trumps is like acute lead poisoning. The reason I mentioned the republican governors wasn’t to suggest you were a member, rather to suggest that if w…

>>rather to suggest that if we did think those states performed election fraud then we’d expect it to be in favour of the Republican Party, right?

Not necessarily, there was a large part of the Republican party that was, and still is Never Trumpers...

They were the establishment, anti-populist, neo-con wing of the party. Their allegiance is not the party, but the establishment, the elite, etc.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#568

Post by Kye »

tapas73 wrote: post #565
Kye wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've spent trillions on all kinds of naive nonsense. What's the worst that could happen, people get a month off and the line goes up thanks to all the stimulus? Oh, the horror. Mindless cynicism is not the virtuous alternative to optimism. We can do nothing and watch as our health care system continues to collapse or do something . Maybe this isn't it, but you haven't offered a better idea. It's easy to tear people…

Not all ideas are worth pursuing. Continuing as-is most of the time (like 99.99%) is the appropriate choice. Do you move every time a stranger on TV/street suggests that?

Continuing as-is will mean the nearly full ICU beds will fill up and the already overwhelmed and too-short supply of medical professionals will dry up as they seek other careers. Every doctor I know who hasn't quit is in or approaching a burnout.

The curve of deaths from omicron in the US is already above delta's peak in much less time. Do you imagine this will just pass by without completely overwhelming the health care system? It's too late to do anything for this strain, but I don't want to gamble on it being the last or worst.

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#569

Post by TrispusAttucks »

mschuster91 wrote: post #539
TrispusAttucks wrote: post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with most of what you say. However, one thing I must point out is that climate change is a complex problem with no easy solutions. As much as it sounds like we should "just turn off the oil" that would in fact lead to millions of deaths. It's possible that there are problems that are unsolvable or at least a best outcome doesn't exist. Extinction maybe inevitable.

> However, one thing I must point out is that climate change is a complex problem with no easy solutions. Indeed, but right now we are doing almost nothing meaningful. We shame people from taking vacation flights once every couple years but don't ban short distance "business flights" for corporate executives with a completely bonkers view on how important they are. We still don't mandate the end of "bunker fuel" burn…

One again I agree with most of what you're suggesting here. One more point of nuance though.

What is the carbon foot print of replacing all the rail and freight? Do we have the funds to make these changes all at once? How quickly can we realistically change out our entire fossil fuel infrastructure?

The first motor car was in 1886, over 130 years ago.

The first mass produced motor car was 1908, Over 110 years ago.

We've built this current system for over 100 years. Rebuilding a new one may also take a similar time line. The tragedy is we may not be able to BUT... you are right.

We should try!

Re: Society has a trust problem. More censorship will only make it worse

#570

Post by ayngg »

puffoflogic wrote: post #540
ayngg wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it largely comes from a lack of empathy that has been cultivated for a while now through the loss of social cohesion. It seems like across the board (families, friends, local communities, spouses etc), people are suffering socially and turn to insular groups on social media to cope.

On the contrary, studies have shown that this comes from an excess of empathy. Studies have shown that when empathy is controlled chemically, increased empathy correlates positively to increased tribalism.

Interesting, what sort of studies should I look into if I wanted to look into this?
Post reply on HN