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Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

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Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#561
post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that CVS has been turning away brown people who want covid shots or are you just parroting rhetoric without really knowing or looking into the true root cause of this issue? Yes. My firsthand anecdotal conversations with black friends and family confirms that they are indeed smart enough and able enough to get the widely available covid shots. For free if that is an issue. Where is this black-person-fi…

Well it's wonderful all these black Americans you think so highly of live in states with good public transit so they can get to the pharmacy without a car, and have labor rights and money in the bank to take an unpaid day or two or three off of work to recover. It's even better they all have a smart device or personal computer and internet connection to make the appointment or even know it's available for free. What…

If that’s the case, tell me why New York City has among the lowest Black vaccination rates in the country at 28% as of October.

Edit: Ages 18-44

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#562

The US policy response has been far more costly and destructive than it needed to be. The pandemic response completely ignored the costs of shutdowns. There has been little or no consideration of their impact on physical health, mental health, education, business, employment, worship. It has been as if COVID was the only risk and the only negative, and any other matter was necessarily secondary. To even mention these…

> The disease has a 0.3 risk of fatality, still less for Omicron I'm not sure what you mean by "0.3 risk". 0.3% case fatality rate? But where are you getting that number from? COVID19 had roughly a 2% CFR early on when testing was limited and treatments hadn't been developed. It was around 1% for most of the pandemic. It is *now* as low as 0.3% in highly vaccinated countries, but still about 0.5% in the US. It has be…

I dunno, I don't think we, as a society, should be prioritizing the health of the old and infirm over the health of those that are young and healthy via policy.

The CFR statistics in that graph are misleading anyways, confirmed cases early on would have skewed drastically towards more severe due to lack of widespread testing. Similar arguments can be made for large spikes later on as the ability to get a confirmed case can dry up due to demand for lab tests.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#563
post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it highlights, for better or for worse, the cultural difference between the US and the EU. Take for example the UK that went into lockdown after lockdown, the reason it hasn't been done in the US is that it would be politically untenable. If a politician in the US tried anything remotely like that, they would be burned alive by the opposition and the media.

Exactly. So it's insane to me to see OP posting about how heavy-handed the lockdown was and how it ignored business interests.

I agree. But as political Kool Aid goes, talking about a nonexistent US "lockdown" is pretty mild.

On the other hand, that this has become such a trope indicates that the stay at home suggestions ended up working. People who weren't paying close attention to details thought the suggestions did have the force of law, without there actually being such laws.

(As an aside, I sympathize with small business owners and think "lockdown" is appropriate (albeit hyperbolic) to describe business closures. It's the society-wide usage of the term I'm talking about, where it's implied that people were not allowed to leave their homes. A few counties in California were the only instances that I'm aware of)

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#564
post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US policy response has been far more costly and destructive than it needed to be. As with many things, the US response combined all the worst parts of the left's reaction to the pandemic with all the worst aspects of the right's. We had ham-fisted lockdowns (of dubious effectiveness) that destroyed small business and harmed mental health while simultaneously we had a right-wing crackpot antivaccination movement…

The anti-vax movement isn't just right-wing. Blacks are the most under-vaccinated demographic. And it is important to distinguish those who are against mandates from those who are against the vaccine.

There is an difference between a community that just happens to have low vaccination rates, and one that is ideologically opposed to vaccinations.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m gonna defend a bit here. Early on, nobody knew what covid was gonna look like. It had the potential for millions dead with a very high rate of spread. So we panicked. It seems forgotten that nobody remembers how awful, unknown, and strange the early pandemic was back in March 2020. What’s pathetic is how almost two years later, when we know oodles more about this disease, our solutions are identical. Where is the…

When I talk about "lockdowns", I want to split it up into a few separate instances. 1. The Initial Lockdown - The "14 days to slow the spread". Everyone was freaking out and pretty much the entire country locked down during that period, no one complained, we all understood the gravity of the situation. 2. Individual States Lockdowns - After those initial weeks, states started to open separately. Some opened immediatl…

how are we do different than those places?

LA and NYC are some of the densest cities in the States. 12.5% of the US lives in California. Tons more people in close proximity for a virus to tear through than in a hollowed-out former manufacturing city in the Midwest.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#566

The US policy response has been far more costly and destructive than it needed to be. The pandemic response completely ignored the costs of shutdowns. There has been little or no consideration of their impact on physical health, mental health, education, business, employment, worship. It has been as if COVID was the only risk and the only negative, and any other matter was necessarily secondary. To even mention these…

> The disease has a 0.3 risk of fatality, still less for Omicron I'm not sure what you mean by "0.3 risk". 0.3% case fatality rate? But where are you getting that number from? COVID19 had roughly a 2% CFR early on when testing was limited and treatments hadn't been developed. It was around 1% for most of the pandemic. It is *now* as low as 0.3% in highly vaccinated countries, but still about 0.5% in the US. It has be…

The number of deaths alone is not very informative for gauging risk.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not arguing with the desired outcome. But what I've seen more often than not is that people get addicted to the pills and never do stand on their own feet again. And I agree with your second paragraph completely. I am sick of society pretending that people are "sick". They are not. They are responding naturally to an increasingly hostile world.

I'm sick of people pretending that they know more about brain chemistry and human behavior than the thousands of professionals and the decades of research devoted to the topic, but here we are with your dismissive posts. Some people eventually get off the medications. Some can't function without them. Your attitude is akin to being upset because once a paraplegic is in a wheelchair that they never just get up and try…

>I'm sick of people pretending that they know more about brain chemistry and human behavior than the thousands of professionals and the decades of research devoted to the topic

The "thousands of professionals and the decades of research devoted to the topic" were mislead by pharma companies propagating the erroneous idea that depression and other problems are just chemical imbalances in the brain that are to be fixed with medication and that's that. So you can hardly blame them.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#568

The US policy response has been far more costly and destructive than it needed to be. The pandemic response completely ignored the costs of shutdowns. There has been little or no consideration of their impact on physical health, mental health, education, business, employment, worship. It has been as if COVID was the only risk and the only negative, and any other matter was necessarily secondary. To even mention these…

I’m gonna defend a bit here. Early on, nobody knew what covid was gonna look like. It had the potential for millions dead with a very high rate of spread. So we panicked. It seems forgotten that nobody remembers how awful, unknown, and strange the early pandemic was back in March 2020. What’s pathetic is how almost two years later, when we know oodles more about this disease, our solutions are identical. Where is the…

The whole thing shows how dangerous and stupid panic can be. There was a lot of media freakout, because drama drives audience. That's where the public health people should have been saying "it's serious but not catastrophic, take a deep breath". And that's where our government and citizenry should have taken a long, hard look at what these recommendations involve. Instead we dove into an extended exercise in groupthink.

Because Covid's broad parameters were known to the experts and attentive laypeople in February 2020: spread through the air and quite infectious, but not particularly serious to a healthy individual. The importance of risk factors was strongly expected but not known for a fact. Analogies to the Spanish Flu were drawn, and dismissed by the experts.

And the expert response was basically "this one thing is more important than anything else, and minimizing it takes priority over all other concerns". Anyone asking questions of their recommendations, never mind criticizing them, was labelled as anti-science. The "expert" response to serious and informed questions, some of them from excellent medical people, was dismissive and condescending.

But it was obvious that its spread could only be slowed, not stopped. It was clear at the start of "Fifteen Days to Slow the Spread" that the facts on the ground would be pretty much the same after as before. So the logic leading to the first fifteen days would lead to the next fifteen days, and so on. But because the first lockdowns were supposedly just two weeks, their cost was minimized. No one spoke up to the obvious logic of their perpetuation.

Our public health experts failed to push against the fears, and failed to address the obvious consequences of their recommendations. They failed to honestly consider and respond to questions from other scientists, who, if not "public health experts", certainly had the training and intelligence to pose serious questions. And we, as citizens and in our government, failed to question those experts, and to conduct a proper layperson's analysis of their technical statements. All in all, a very poor performance by all of us.

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tell that to the small businesses that were destroyed because of “two weeks to slow the spread” and the families that relied on them. They passionately hate these leaders.

Nobody guarantees small businesses the right to exist. Sure nobody can plan for a pandemic but the government’s responsibility is to society at large, not the plight of small business owners.

> Nobody guarantees small businesses the right to exist.

This is a bit of a dead end argument. By the same token, nobody guarantees that there is food in the supermarket for people to purchase. Yet, if there wasn't, and 90% of us starved, it'd be a fairly major problem. Small businesses and their employees make of roughly half of "society at large".

Re: Youth suicide attempts soared during pandemic, CDC report says

#570

I'm not even a parent, but I've been incredibly distressed by this trend. Several of my good friends have had their daughters attempt suicide (luckily, none have succeeded, although 2 extremely close calls). It's been utterly gut-wrenching to watch these talented, kind, ambitious girls spiral into shells of their former selves. Luckily, all my friends are fellow techies who are upper-middle class, and can afford medi…

> It's past time the West reckons with our mental health crisis. OK. But doing so would admit that our entire system is broken. It's not that more kids born today want to off themselves, it's that our system makes everyone unhappy. We need to fix the system, not give kids pills.

>OK. But doing so would admit that our entire system is broken.

I don't think this can even be argued against at this point. A truckload of societies in the west would be facing absolute collapse right now if it wasn't for immigration.

In a version of reality in which we can't afford to just import as much cheap labour as we want, a good part of western culture would be facing extreme turmoil and our hegemony would most probably end. Hell we are pretty much assuming China will explode from inner conflict at some point because otherwise that hegemony is lost either way.

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