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Plans you're not supposed to talk about

dynomight.net

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Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#561

Post by rthomas6 »

mherdeg wrote: post #54

Reading this gave me a kind of horrifying idea that goes something like: You know about a deadly disease whose most serious outcomes can be avoided by getting a shot. Many members of a group in your society have decided they don't want to get the shot. You are annoyed by the way they talk about a lot of things, including the way they talk about avoiding the shot. They, in turn, call you "smug" for the way your group…

If Democrats/the left could pull back enough to model the minds of Republican voters, they could have framed the vaccine as "the war against China's virus". They could have talked about a great foreign threat to our nation, and that we need to band together as Americans to fight it. Degenerates in other countries might not be taking the fight seriously, but Americans are, because we are the greatest nation on earth with the best people.

Who cares if it leaves out a lot of nuance, and is not literally true, if it works?

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#563

Post by rthomas6 »

imgabe wrote: post #208
guidoism wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Less about making those people safe and more about making you safe by making those other not spread the disease to you. For example: Go ahead and drive drunk, I don’t care, just do it on your private property so you don’t kill me. Similarly: Go and don’t get vaxed, honestly I don’t care. But viruses don’t respect borders like cars do, so if you are going to do it then make sure you are isolated on a private island wh…

But if you've already gotten the shot, you're protected from the disease. So, what is someone else not getting the shot going to do to you?

Because 0.3 * 1 = 0.3

And

0.3 * 0.3 = 0.09

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#564

Post by npsimons »

unixhero wrote: post #562

I didn't understand the premise or point this article was making. I have some college level credits in philosophy. Maybe it has been too long.

I'm not any sort of expert, but the topics TFA article covers are many that weigh upon my mind, and quite frankly, the author comes across as smug and egotistical, ironically the traits he seems to rail against in the "edgelord" section.

For one thing, there is a lot of begging the question going on in most of these "plans that shall not be named", with a side order of heavy cultural colorings the author does not even appear to realize they operate under.

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#565

Post by npsimons »

d23 wrote: post #366
salt-thrower wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference between: A) smugly telling them to do it so that they won't do it, and B) genuinely telling them to do it because you care about public health, but they interpret it as smug? Also, the kind of reverse psychology you're describing generally only works on children.

> Also, the kind of reverse psychology you're describing generally only works on children. I can't tell if this is tongue in cheek, but it seems to be happening on huge swaths of adults as we speak.

> it seems to be happening on huge swaths of adults as we speak.

I am fully convinced there are vast swaths of legal "adults" who are not fully emotionally developed. On my really bad days, I'm one of them. The one thing that saves me is I tend to snap out of it eventually and think of the long term. I think that many "adults" never do.

Events in recent years have only reinforced this point of view.

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#567

Post by npsimons »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #103

As an authorial technique starting off with a just so story about how marriage came to be that lasts several paragraphs and is obviously not at all how marriage came to be and doesn't even have the excuse of referencing some sort of supernatural source for being wrong might seem interesting but bored me too much to continue. I'm supposing the rest of it is also wrong and badly argued.

> just so story

Thank you, this is the term I was looking for, and indeed, pretty much all of the "plans" the author lays out are "just so stories", untestable and with the implication that they are the true reasons things are as they are.

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#568

Post by ClumsyPilot »

nickpp wrote: post #545
ClumsyPilot wrote: post #536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Planners are neither motivated nor able to do either. They are the ones bringing the economic collapse." Erm, no, its the briliant free market optimised supply chains that have failed and gave us this inflation. The free-market has ensured that the entire continent of North America produced Zero medical masks in the first year of the pandemic because there is no meltblown production on the entire continent. There wa…

There is no free market when it comes to producing and selling medical equipment in the US. I remember reading about a business able and willing to start mask production but choosing not to because of the onerous requirements and not being allowed to raise price to the required levels. In other, less-regulated countries, KN95 masks where missing for just a brief period of time in March then they were readily availabl…

"In other, less-regulated countries, KN95 masks where missing for just a brief period of time"

"heavy restrictions imposed by... you know... governments."

I don't think we live on the same planet, UK government was trowing tens of billions at anyone who could supply masks, it took almost a year to fix supply while frontline doctors and nurses were dying. You could literally sell them masks that didn't actually work and they would take em.

I am not getting the feeling we are having reasonable discourse, it doesnt matter what happens, you always blame 'regulation', did regulation get millions of containers stuck in US, causing shortage of containers in China? Did regulation make it so you only have 2 ports that can unload giant container ships?

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#569

Post by npsimons »

cheschire wrote: post #279
norswap wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A big part of "the normal way" things are done is related to subtle (and by-design, unspoken) social reasons. If you are open-minded, you're open to considering that the normal ways things are done might not be the best way -- which it is not along all axes, but it does incur some advantages for reasons that must remain unspoken for the advantages to be incurred. This has two potentially bad consequences: (1) you mig…

I'm fairly certain that not all marriages are based on fear of the potential pain of open relationships. Sure, some folks may be motivated along the lines you speak of, but there's plenty of us who got deep into it because we value the depth that comes from that one forever-friendship that is intimate on a level that can't be experience with the guys from the bar. So, yeah, careful about painting with too broad a bru…

> careful about painting with too broad a brush there.

Which is precisely what every single "plan" from the article does.

Re: Plans you're not supposed to talk about

#570

Post by Jwarder »

rthomas6 wrote: post #561
mherdeg wrote: post #54

Reading this gave me a kind of horrifying idea that goes something like: You know about a deadly disease whose most serious outcomes can be avoided by getting a shot. Many members of a group in your society have decided they don't want to get the shot. You are annoyed by the way they talk about a lot of things, including the way they talk about avoiding the shot. They, in turn, call you "smug" for the way your group…

If Democrats/the left could pull back enough to model the minds of Republican voters, they could have framed the vaccine as "the war against China's virus". They could have talked about a great foreign threat to our nation, and that we need to band together as Americans to fight it. Degenerates in other countries might not be taking the fight seriously, but Americans are, because we are the greatest nation on earth w…

I think this would work in the scope of vaccines, but I fear the effects of inflaming xenophobia. There were plenty of reports of random violence against asians the past year; I'd rather avoid increasing that.
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