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Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

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Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#561

Post by basisword »

CountDrewku wrote: post #296
serial_dev wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure what to say without being labeled an anti vaxxer... I was very sick for a week after each shot. I'm 30, I work from home, I work out, I'm lean and only go out when running in the forest and buy food. I can't possibly know what would happen if I caught covid, but I wish the vaccination (I'm already vaxxed, but I mean the boosters) was my choice. With my reaction to the vaccines, it's two weeks a year guarante…

Yes I had a horrible reaction to the 2nd dose. So did everyone I know. Yes it's possible the real thing might be worse for me but I'm going to take my chances. I will not be taking a booster. I'm healthy, exercise regularly and I'm not in the age group that's high-risk. There are studies showing the vaccine isn't even effective at 3 months. There's no way I'm dealing with that shot every 3-6 months.

Why do you assume you’ll have the same reaction to the booster?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#562

Post by rbanffy »

dhosek wrote: post #534
worik wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

In the US, it's because a bunch of demagogues have decided that they will make a lot of money (or retain political power) by saying that vaccines don't work and/or are harmful. Fox News regularly spews this kind of nonsense in its programming and a number of Republican politicians are happy to go along with it.

We should remember that the freedom of the press exists because a well informed population is necessary for a functioning democracy.

The moment the press starts spreading disinformation, it starts to be detrimental to democracy and should be treated as that.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#563

Post by VoodooJuJu »

timdaub wrote: post #369

I find it ironic that there are plenty comments that paint the picture of how mandatory vaccinations divide the country. Hello? Have you been awake for the last month? How much more divided can a country already be when the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back. Anyone in my family or from my friends that has taken one for the team (and got…

>30% are holding everyone back.

What do you mean by this?

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#564

Post by e40 »

atsaloli wrote: post #442

I was born in Soviet Russia, where the party line was: there is no God, there is no Soul, there is no Truth, and truth is what we tell the people. My family came to America to get away from that savage society and to live in a free country, based on voluntary cooperation (free market) not force and violence and coercion. In communism, the group is all and the individual is nothing. I do not believe it is okay to viol…

Where is the line (for the common good)? Prevent you from using indoor public spaces? Your right to not want the vaccine infringes my right to life and safety, does it not? I'm seriously curious where you draw the line.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#565

Post by ericd »

rrrrrrrrrrrryan wrote: post #495
whiddershins wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the most salient thing about rights is that the majority isn't permitted take them away whenever it suits them.

Access to healthcare is considered a right in Germany. They're mandating vaccines so that they can continue to provide all their citizens with this human right. Sometimes rights clash, which is why you can't yell "fire" in a crowded theater despite having the right to freedom of speech. An individual's right to do X on principle can absolutely be overruled by the right for a larger group of people to continue living…

Ironically, the ruling that spawned the "fire in a theater" meme about limits on free speech was largely overturned: https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-tim...

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#566

Post by Pyramus »

throwawaysea wrote: post #519
worik wrote: post #388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that everybody should get vaccinated. Let's make this virus extinct. But what you describe is majoritarianism. It is a form of democracy but a very weak form. For a lot of people, who are from minority groups, it is indistinguishable from totalitarianism. Why do 30% of people refuse to get vaccinated? (here in Aotearoa it is 5%). Something is happening, people are getting left behind, in vast numbers. Forcing…

It's a tyranny of the majority: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority I simply don't understand why one person needs to undergo a medical procedure to enable someone else to experience the safe conditions they want. These vaccines don't even grant immunity in the traditional sense (see CDC's revision of definitions here) - all the vaccines do is move things from one nonzero probability of risk to anot…

Admittedly, it's not a great example, but maybe it can facilitate understanding a bit?

Why do we take away the right to drive a car (free movement) from those who are intoxicated? All that banning of drunk driving does is it slightly decreases a nonzero probability of risk. The risk to be hurt by an intoxicated driver is very low, and the risk to die is even lower. If people are really concerned about street safety, and traffic is inherently dangerous as it is, they should just stay at home.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#567

Post by JacobJans »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #257
kareemm wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the breakdown of unvaxxed/vaxxed in hospital admissions and deaths? Serious question. I wonder about vaxx effectiveness when I see these numbers. But the breakdown matters. I live in Nova Scotia, Canada. Our breakdown from Mar 15-Nov 26 is[1]: - Hospitalizations: 84.4% unvaxxed, 9.6% 1 shot, 6% 2 shots - Deaths: 69% unvaxxed, 7.1% 1 shot, 23.8% 2 shots Total admissions and death rate numbers don't tell the wh…

Your numbers are very similar to Ontario's, and in fact Canada in general as a whole. But what's strange is out the US doesn't seem to reflect this. There are states with fairly high vaccination rates where vaccinated people are ending up in the ICU at rates many times ours, and are only showing up as 2.5 or 3 times better protected than the unvaccinated for hospitalization. I don't know how to explain this other tha…

In Canada, we had a longer gap between doses, which may be a factor in extending efficacy. There is also a robust booster strategy, though it does not get much attention here. Not sure how it compares, though.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#569

Post by cblconfederate »

timdaub wrote: post #545
cblconfederate wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the absolute democratic majority has made their decision months ago to take the shot but 30% are holding everyone back Were people really asked to cast their vote by vaccinating themselves?

no. That was a rethorical device I used in my comment.

it 's rhetoric based on false equivalence though. I vaccinated myself for purely selfish reasons, to save my ass since the vaccine was the only available preventative pharmaceutical, and at the time i did, it was already becoming clear that herd immunity was not possible. I couldnt care less if others want to save themselves nor do i think everyone should do it.

Re: Germany locks down unvaccinated people, as leaders plan to make shots compulsory

#570

Post by prohobo »

timdaub wrote: post #530
chippy wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its worth remembering that division is due to the other side always . This is an absolute statement as division is literally caused by dividing between "sides". You get a divided country when the people within it divides each other into sides. Its never been the case when people have said "our side has caused the division". never. That is the irony you should be finding! If you do finally see this irony you might fin…

And how exactly does this statement now help to address the situation?

I suppose by helping people become open to other, possibly more reasonable, options.
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