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The deceptive PR behind Apple’s “expanded protections for children”

piotr.is

561–570 of 595 posts

Re: The deceptive PR behind Apple’s “expanded protections for children”

#561

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> Seemed much better than the Pinephone Just curious, how is it better than the Pinephone?

I am mostly going by what I saw in the review. I saw the review of pinephone on Linus’ channel where it seemed very slow. The review of volla phone seemed much better. Maybe I am wrong though as I haven’t owned either.

Pinephone is only slow if the software is not optimized. It's true for most OSes, but have a look at this: https://sr.ht/~mil/Sxmo/.

Re: The deceptive PR behind Apple’s “expanded protections for children”

#562
post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's entirely possible for one innocuous picture to look like an illegal picture in that database, and if they do look similar, they'll have similar perceptual hashes. That's the point of perceptual hashing.

'Similar' hashes wouldn't do anything; the system hashes perceptually similar images (cropped, resized etc.) to the same hash.

Not all transformations result in the same hash, hence why fuzzy matching is necessary. Some perceptual hashing techniques try to incorporate common transformations like rotations and scaling, but if you change an image slightly, but enough, hashes will be different but still similar.

Re: The deceptive PR behind Apple’s “expanded protections for children”

#563
post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Similar' hashes wouldn't do anything; the system hashes perceptually similar images (cropped, resized etc.) to the same hash.

Not all transformations result in the same hash, hence why fuzzy matching is necessary. Some perceptual hashing techniques try to incorporate common transformations like rotations and scaling, but if you change an image slightly, but enough, hashes will be different but still similar.

Apple's system only concerns exact hash matches, and is built so transformed images hash to the same number.

Re: The deceptive PR behind Apple’s “expanded protections for children”

#564
post #2

I have a newborn at home, and like every other parent, we take thousands of pictures and videos of our newest family member. We took pictures of the very first baby-bath. So now I have pictures of a naked baby on my phone. Does that mean that pictures of my newborn baby will be uploaded to Apple for further analysis, potentially stored for indefinite time, shared with law enforcement?

Lots of people responding to this seem to not understand how perceptual hashing / PhotoDNA works. It's true that they're not cryptographic hashes, but the false positive rate is vanishingly small. Apple claims it's 1 in a trillion [1], but suppose that you don't believe them. Google and Facebook and Microsoft are all using PhotoDNA (or equivalent perceptual hashing schemes) right now. Have you heard of some massive i…

Even assuming this is true, this is just the 'if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about' argument, which has been shown to have numerous flaws and counterarguments.

Re: The deceptive PR behind Apple’s “expanded protections for children”

#565
post #517

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A year and a half ago, we tried to convert a well-spec'd Dell laptop from Windows to Ubuntu for a new dev. We couldn't get the wifi to work. The dev now uses a MacBook.

There are tons of github repos for non-mainline wifi chips. Did you check if you could find something for the model you had?

I can't really remember. I think I tried looking for some error message, perhaps in combination with the model, but it simply took too long. It may be fine when you're tinkering with a hobby machine, but at work it's basically me who can support Linux, so it was a no go. Wifi was not a solved problem at that moment, from my POV.

Re: The deceptive PR behind Apple’s “expanded protections for children”

#566

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> The worst part is: how do I put my money where my mouth is? ..., debugging wifi drivers and tirelessly trying to make resume-from-suspend work? Coincidentally, this is actually a good idea. Apart from using supported hardware (that others have checked actually works), contributing fixes for hardware that's not officially supported yet and hasn't been tested would benefit everyone in the future! I remember having to…

Yeah... when you have a home-built PC with *nix unsupported hardware and invested lots of $$ you're still looking for a hard time. First, there's the hardware cost. I'm not throwing my Surface out, and I'm not throwing out my perfectly working desktop components either. But that aside... Every time I read how the great unwashed should just contribute fixes already to benefit everyone, I despair. I write code. I build…

> If I were to start digging through Github repositories and... whatever other unknown resources I don't know the search terms to even search for

The package managers and their associated websites tell you exactly where the sources are; you don’t need to search for them yourself. This is how I found some quotes for `fortune` from CentOS that I liked which weren’t present in the macOS version.

Re: The deceptive PR behind Apple’s “expanded protections for children”

#567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EFF wrote a really shitty hit piece deliberately confused the parental management function with the matching against hashes of illegal images. Two different things. From there, a bazillion hot takes followed.

The EFF article refers to a "classifier", not just matching hashes. So, three different things. I don't know how much you know about them, but this is what the EFF's role is. Privacy can't be curtailed uncritically or unchecked. We don't have a way to guarantee that Apple won't change how this works in the future, that it will never be compromised domestically or internationally, or that children and families won't b…

You’re making my point. Nobody cares about your penis pictures.

EFF is an advocacy group, and you need to read between the lines what they say because they have a specific set of principles that may or may not align with reality. They published a bad article and took an extreme stance about what could be as opposed to what is.

Parents care about children sending or receiving explicit material. This is for behavioral, moral and liability reasons.

When your 12 year old boy sends a dick pic to his girlfriend, that may be a felony. When your 16 year old daughter sends an explicit picture to her 18 year old crush, that person may be committing a felony by possessing it.

Re: The deceptive PR behind Apple’s “expanded protections for children”

#568

> The worst part is: how do I put my money where my mouth is? Am I going back to using Linux on the desktop (2022 will be the year of Linux on the desktop, remember), debugging wifi drivers and tirelessly trying to make resume-from-suspend work? Oh come on. DOn't make it sound like it's that bad. Wifi is a solved problem for a long time now, and you can buy Lenovo, System76 or Tuxedo if you want to make sure 100% thi…

You ommitted resume from suspend which is still a frigging problem. At least some finally support UEFI so your usb key install doesnt freeze on the first screen. But yeah wifi and nvidia are solved - just a black screen and single mode startup the first time to deactivate the opensource drivers for some obscure reason (I understand they prefer it but why does it crashes... might as well just put the nvidia ones direc…

Resume from suspend works fine on my Linux laptops and desktops.

Re: The deceptive PR behind Apple’s “expanded protections for children”

#569

> The worst part is: how do I put my money where my mouth is? Am I going back to using Linux on the desktop (2022 will be the year of Linux on the desktop, remember), debugging wifi drivers and tirelessly trying to make resume-from-suspend work? Oh come on. DOn't make it sound like it's that bad. Wifi is a solved problem for a long time now, and you can buy Lenovo, System76 or Tuxedo if you want to make sure 100% thi…

Can I upgrade video drivers without being dumped to a command line?

Ubuntu, PopOS and Manjaro have GUI utilities for driver installations.

Re: The deceptive PR behind Apple’s “expanded protections for children”

#570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, if they wind up part of a child porn investigation. Your cloud account gets hacked. Some perv gets your images. He is then arrested and his "collection" added to the hash database... including your family photos. Context often matters more than the nature of the actual content. Police aquire thousands of images with little hope of ever knowing where they originated. If they are collected by pervs, and could be c…

if your cloud account gets hacked you have other things to worry about than someone stealing your child's photos (which for whatever reason are explicit enough for apple to report the detections to authorities), spreading them on a honeypot forum and you ending up in court where the judge doesn't believe that the minor on the image is your child

> judge doesn't believe that the minor on the image is your child

Parents can produce, distribute and sell CSAM of their own kids. That's one of the implications they'd face in court.

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