Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday • Hacker News Board

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#561

Post by ranguna » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 6:58 AM UTC

anilgulecha wrote: post #527

ranguna wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine if it's true, if not, why tell lies? Just tell them you don't like drinking. We organize the same kind of meetings over at where I work, and if someone says they don't like drinking, we tell them that water is fine, if they say they don't want to join for whatever or no reason, then we say fine and let them know that the meeting will be always open to them.

Isn't a better approach to pick types of meetings that don't have these outcast properties?

Is there such a thing? Sometimes it's better to stick with what you like instead of spending days figuring out how to include everyone. We'll just adapt the meeting if we see someone doesn't fit.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#562

Post by ben_w » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 9:12 AM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #486

brazzy wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is why the definition of ribbing is "good-natured teasing". The problem is that there may not in fact be anything "good-natured" about it - on both sides - yet the culture forces the recipient to act like it is or they will be punished. In other words: the only way in which that kind of thing is not toxic is when a recipient can at any time say "that's not funny, stop it!", and the reaction will be a sincere a…

Literally my entire 80's high school experience is peppered with instances (at a constant rate) of being ribbed and being unable to say "that's not funny, stop it!" because it "wasn't cool". Are you saying my entire generation grew up in toxicity? I mean... It's entirely possible, even if it seemed more innocent at the time.

I’d say that, yes. Bluntly, the entire American school system looks pretty bad from the, in my case, outside perspective of someone who went though UK Catholic secondary school (‘secondary’ is an almost but not quite perfect match of US high school).

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#563

Post by ben_w » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 9:23 AM UTC

fleddr wrote: post #353

andrewzah wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How hard is it to not make inappropriate comments about someone or their body? It's -exceedingly- easy to not be a creepy dick to one's coworkers and fellow human beings. One only has to act like a robot if they have zero social awareness or tact.

I would agree that this is easy, but I did run into a weird edge case. First to be clear, I would never comment on anybody's body or clothes, especially not in the workplace. This is not to comply with some rule, I wouldn't have the urge to do that in the first place. It's weird and unneeded. Anyway, the edge case. My female coworker is very passionate about making custom dresses. One day, on the day before our count…

> Which sounds reasonable to me, in every context but this one. I had a strong urge to compliment her on her skill and the incredible result of her tireless effort. Surely, she worked on this forever, and this was to be a proud moment of display.

I get what you’re saying, and the context of the training would give me a warning siren in my head too (even though it is implicit that the no-no is with regard to the dress that someone is wearing), but you can complement someone’s handiwork or effort directly without using the word 'dress' — “Skilful haberdashery” is a very different tone than “nice dress”.

Although you do need to ask the person involved, as there’s no way a (male) internet stranger like me is going to read your coworkers’ mind.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#564

Post by bennysomething » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:00 PM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #477

nineplay wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You bring up the really interesting question - is discrimination justified? If it makes the team better, if it makes the product better, if it makes the company better, then maybe the right thing to do is hire the fun white guy instead of the boring brown girl. If people believe that, then I'll only ask that they acknowledge it. Next time someone talks about gender disparity or race disparity, stand up and say "Yep,…

I think there is a much more valid reason if people were being absolutely honest. Powerful and privileged people have spent generations spilling blood and other less violent measures to get on top and stay on top. Being on top only happens through threat of force and excercise of power. The people at the bottom will replace the people at the top if presented with the opportunity. Even if most people are content to li…

So the only reason you get to the top is through force? That's ridiculous, in modern society people also get to the top through competence. When I look around at successful people I know it's because they worked hard, have the experience so that their judgement is respected. In other words people look to their authority on their given domain. Who do you mean in your day to day life that used violence to get there?

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#565

Post by bennysomething » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 1:03 PM UTC

dougmwne wrote: post #502

nineplay wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make very good points - sometimes the best discussions are well down in the comments. Currently, while men hold the majority of the economic and political power in the US. From a purely Machiavellian viewpoint, why should they hire anyone besides other white men? They only stand to lose if business and politics become more egalitarian. What's changed in the past century or so is that it can no longer appear blata…

And to restate your point, the business may gain greatly from diversity in leadership, but the in-group mainly stands to lose. If they don't stand to lose then it's not really power sharing, is it? In my experience, these efforts hit the wall the moment they seek any real piece of the power pie. That's the difference between talks-the-talk and walks-the-walk.

Do you mean diversity in race and gender? I thought the argument was that there's no differences between races and gender? I actually genuinely believe that everyone should be treated equally but your line of thinking seems to suggest race and gender matter in decision making, its contradictory.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#566

Post by pmarreck » Thu, Jul 29, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

void_mint wrote: post #508

pmarreck wrote: post #495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Women have to have thick skin" is just nonsense to not have to type "The women are harassed relentlessly". Which is also a false translation (and thus a strawman) of what I said. The vast majority were treated quite damn well. > It's also worth noting that the military is a toxic cesspit for sexual abuse. I did some Googling here and found that in 2013, 0.9% of all military members reported sexual assault. I don't…

> Which is also a false translation (and thus a strawman) of what I said. The vast majority were treated quite damn well. I copied and pasted exactly what you wrote. > I did some Googling here and found that in 2013, 0.9% of all military members reported sexual assault. I don't know how that compares to civilian life, and I'll just toss this out there, I bet this varies A TON by military branch, and I will leave it a…

> I copied and pasted exactly what you wrote.

And then misparaphrased it with a crystal clear bias.

> I criticized an obviously disgusting group (that you’re a part of) and you’re making a judgement of my character out of adversarialism.

Ah yes. Adversarialism, after you make a blanket statement like that is totally surprising, lol.

The fact is that the chance of sexual assault in the military is low, and reporting of it is improving, and the exact number of incidents cannot be known, only speculated on. But apparently, if 2% of Muslims become suicide bombers, all Muslims are bad, according to you; and if most rapists are men, then all men are assholes, according to your reasoning; unfortunately that is what I'll generously call "illogic"; you can speak to countless military members who had good experiences, but if a few women (and a handful of men) got fucked over, then I guess the whole system is fucked, eh?

Good luck applying that to society at large (which, by the way, is IMPROVING along with the military).

Making approval depend on perfection (instead of consistent improvement) is the enemy of good, once again

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#567

Post by void_mint » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 1:57 AM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #566

void_mint wrote: post #508

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Which is also a false translation (and thus a strawman) of what I said. The vast majority were treated quite damn well. I copied and pasted exactly what you wrote. > I did some Googling here and found that in 2013, 0.9% of all military members reported sexual assault. I don't know how that compares to civilian life, and I'll just toss this out there, I bet this varies A TON by military branch, and I will leave it a…

> I copied and pasted exactly what you wrote. And then misparaphrased it with a crystal clear bias. > I criticized an obviously disgusting group (that you’re a part of) and you’re making a judgement of my character out of adversarialism. Ah yes. Adversarialism, after you make a blanket statement like that is totally surprising, lol. The fact is that the chance of sexual assault in the military is low, and reporting o…

> Ah yes. Adversarialism, after you make a blanket statement like that is totally surprising, lol.

Skips the whole post.

> The fact is that the chance of sexual assault in the military is low

Where did you get the "low" figure from? I wouldn't call it low at all. I would call it insanely high.

> But apparently, if 2% of Muslims become suicide bombers, all Muslims are bad,

You're saying a lot of very ridiculous things. If an institution condones sexual abuse, it is fair to point it out.

> Good luck applying that to society at large (which, by the way, is IMPROVING along with the military).

I guess it all depends on how you look at it (meaning, if you choose to throw your hands up and say "it's going great!" without actually paying attention).

> Making approval depend on perfection (instead of consistent improvement) is the enemy of good, once again

Who brought up perfection? I'm saying it's an absolute shitshow, for which there is data to corroborate. You're saying "no it's improving", based on legitimately 0 data at all.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#568

Post by pmarreck » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 2:55 AM UTC

ben_w wrote: post #525

pmarreck wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

rib·bing /ˈribiNG/ noun: ribbing 1. a riblike structure or pattern, especially a band of knitting in rib. "a fleecy sweatshirt with ribbing at neck, cuffs, and hem" 2. informal good-natured teasing. "he took a good deal of ribbing with the utmost good humor" I refer to the 2nd definition

I already knew the definition, I was asking for examples. Were they sexual, anatomical, scatalogical, combative, suggesting one person was someone else’s toy, something else, or all of the above?

oh, sorry.

let's see... anatomical (I got called "HEED" because my hat size was larger than anyone else's there (it's a reference to So I Married An Axe Murderer, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-OCjvbV2Z4))... sexual (your manliness was often called into question, usually humorously), combative (sometimes your reputation was called into question)... There are probably more categories of teasing I saw

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#569

Post by pmarreck » Fri, Jul 30, 2021, 2:57 AM UTC

iamstupidsimple wrote: post #521

pmarreck wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One only has to act like a robot if they have zero social awareness or tact. Just noting here that the vast majority of people do not have 100% perfect social awareness or tact, and making this the bar for harsh judgment of human behavior is arguably inhumane.

Not to mention it basically makes the workplace extremely hostile to somebody who isn't neurotypical.

That is an excellent point

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#570

Post by Tally » Sun, Aug 01, 2021, 3:48 PM UTC

crooked-v wrote: post #307

bitwize wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sources for this, please?

The citations section of the Wikipedia article has literally hundreds from various reputable sources: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamergate_controversy#Referenc...

Except the wikipedia article itself is pretty much one the single most biased accounts of the Event.