Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

What it's like to be cancelled

noahbradley.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

561–570 of 613 posts

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#561

Post by koheripbal »

rkk3 wrote: post #536
koheripbal wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the comment is pretty clear in its meaning. Do you really not understand it?

No I don't understand. The author published a written apology, and has said nothing about it not being sincere, what shouldn't be taken as "factual". There is a very big difference between not taking his apology as truthful and other people distorting what he said ie; people equating apologizing for "pressuring someone to have sex" as the same thing as apologizing for rape.

Ok, so you do understand the comment. You just don't agree with it.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#562

Post by prepend »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #48
prepend wrote: post #11

I think the biggest problem with Twitter is that we can’t determine a denominator. Twitter knows, but we don’t know. 100 people tweeting about how this guy is bad might be indicative of a general consensus or might just be 100 people out of a billion Twitter users. People then interpret it as general consensus and pile on. We know the numerator but since we don’t know the denominator of people who didn’t comment, or…

All that happens if you voice your opinion in the opposite direction of an internet mob is you get piled on too. Anyone who has been on the internet must have experienced this more than once. Introducing some facts or measure (which is hard with twitters very tiny character limit that squashes nuance and debate) in a response is just the same thing. The internet mob is a mob and acts like a mob and its best to get ou…

That’s what happens now because there are fewer “dissenters” and it’s more work to reply and dissent.

I think if Twitter had an easy way to show displeasure, it would be more common, and thus harder for internet mobs to form around them.

I used to think that no one had time to internet mob strangers so maybe I’m wrong that there’s not enough attention to mob every “meh” and dislike.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#563

Post by wffurr »

spoonjim wrote: post #362
wffurr wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual opsec is a lot harder than that.

There are different levels of "opsec" required against different types of adversaries and different types of costs of being compromised. Edward Snowden's opsec looks a lot different than someone just wanting to post Trump slogans on Twitter.

If you want to be anonymous from an internet mob, you’ll need some pretty good opsec. Simply avoiding using your name won’t be sufficient. They’re not the NSA, but OSI can get pretty intense.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#564

Post by SassyGrapefruit »

overgard wrote: post #384
SassyGrapefruit wrote: post #158

Maybe the author could consider an alternate title for his article. "I engaged in sexual misconduct with multiple women. This behavior may imply life long psychological consequence for them. Yes they are the victims but let's take a minute consider its made me feel." I think we all know the answer...who cares.

Well so what's your point, this guy is irredeemable and should never be able to get his life back? At what point is the bloodlust sated and sufficient justice is served?

Whether or not the author is "redeemable" is irrelevant. At its core sexual misconduct is prioritizing one's own needs/desires and using someone else as an object to achieve them. It's one of the highest acts of self centeredness and it happens at someone else's expense.

I don't see how writing an article about how the author's sexual misconduct has impacted him isn't a continuation of the same problem mentality.

It would seem that if he had a breakthrough then letting the victims have the stage is the way to go. I believe he has to accept that...

1. No one is obligated to forgive him.

2. No one asked for him to do what he did.

3. No one has to let by gones be by gones.

4. He doesn't necessarily get to make art anymore. At least not the same way he used to.

I don't think that is what the author wants to hear, but its the only honorable path forward.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#565

Post by GoodJokes »

PaulKeeble wrote: post #48
prepend wrote: post #11

I think the biggest problem with Twitter is that we can’t determine a denominator. Twitter knows, but we don’t know. 100 people tweeting about how this guy is bad might be indicative of a general consensus or might just be 100 people out of a billion Twitter users. People then interpret it as general consensus and pile on. We know the numerator but since we don’t know the denominator of people who didn’t comment, or…

All that happens if you voice your opinion in the opposite direction of an internet mob is you get piled on too. Anyone who has been on the internet must have experienced this more than once. Introducing some facts or measure (which is hard with twitters very tiny character limit that squashes nuance and debate) in a response is just the same thing. The internet mob is a mob and acts like a mob and its best to get ou…

Getting rid of ad based social media would go a long ways to ameliorating this though.

Cancelling is ultimately an extremely valuable service for social media. Increases engagement like crazy, and ultimately can serve as leverage politically. "Yo, we could start boosting x cancelling narrative wink wink."

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#566

Post by SassyGrapefruit »

lightgreen wrote: post #421
SassyGrapefruit wrote: post #158

Maybe the author could consider an alternate title for his article. "I engaged in sexual misconduct with multiple women. This behavior may imply life long psychological consequence for them. Yes they are the victims but let's take a minute consider its made me feel." I think we all know the answer...who cares.

> I engaged in sexual misconduct with multiple women The term misconduct is used usually in the work environment when one party is in a position of power, like a boss of another. This is not the case here. > This behavior may imply life long psychological consequence for them. Or may not. Or maybe refusal to engage with women could imply life long psychological consequence for them: women as well as men feel bad when…

>The term misconduct is used usually in the work environment when one party is in a position of power, like a boss of another. This is not the case here.

Says the author

>Don't decide for women what's best for them. They are grown up adults and engage in these relationships voluntarily.

I'm not deciding what is best for anyone. I'm saying the author doesn't get to choose.

> Victims are those who were assaulted against their will. My understanding that there was no violations like that in this story.

Says the author.

I encountered a situation similar to this a few years back. Large group of friends 20-30. Lots of partying. 5 different women report experiences with the same guy. Waking up with him in their beds. Sometimes more overt behaviors.

His recollection is quite different. He remembers it as a much more innocent affair. A mistake. Something embarrassing.

I don't believe him.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#567

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

koheripbal wrote: post #502
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the classical music world, there is a recent example of a composer getting canceled for a complete misinterpretation of an Instagram post. His publisher demanded he apologize, in fact, it provided a pre-written apology for him to just sign. He refused to do so, and his publisher dropped him entirely, which basically ended his career, at least for the time being. So, some people are compelled by employment reasons…

His employer tried to coerce an apology from him, and then fired him when he refused? That sounds like a lawsuit in the making, even if he wasn't a formal employee.

The relationship between a composer and his regular publisher is not one of employment. And publishers regularly refuse to work further with authors when said author does or says something that the publisher feels will make it look bad. Lawsuits don’t typically happened unless a contract has already been signed for the creator to provide a new work to the publisher, while if the two parties are currently between contracts, there are no grounds for a lawsuit.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#568

Post by rkk3 »

foldr wrote: post #554
rkk3 wrote: post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So the tweet paraphrased above, here is the link... Which again he didn't directly reply to and didn't say anything about groping anyone in his apology... Is it really that hard to link? https://twitter.com/BettyDesuJiang/status/127450059571858227...

I think you don't see Noah's reply because he deleted that tweet? At least, I can't find the "a long overdue acknowledgement" tweet on twitter any more. So what tptacek says seems accurate to me.

> I think you don't see Noah's reply because he deleted that tweet?

Several times above, I have included a link [1] with both a screenshot and description which in no way indicate that... He was accused of being a known groper but that was not a behavior he explicitly apologized for.

[1] https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#569

Post by foldr »

rkk3 wrote: post #568
foldr wrote: post #554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you don't see Noah's reply because he deleted that tweet? At least, I can't find the "a long overdue acknowledgement" tweet on twitter any more. So what tptacek says seems accurate to me.

> I think you don't see Noah's reply because he deleted that tweet? Several times above, I have included a link [1] with both a screenshot and description which in no way indicate that... He was accused of being a known groper but that was not a behavior he explicitly apologized for. [1] https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2020/06/noah-bradley-admi...

No, I mean deleted the reply tweet that you see in this screenshot: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbCzIRoU0AcR8Qk?format=jpg&name=...

This is what tptacek was referring to when he said that he used this apology in response to groping allegations.

It's hard to tell what's going on in twitter threads though. Twitter sucks at archiving this kind of info.

Re: What it's like to be cancelled

#570

Post by tptacek »

koheripbal wrote: post #560
tptacek wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I can think of a team I've worked on with more than 10 people on it where someone didn't get let go for noncriminal bad behavior that wasn't simply work incompetence. Obviously, it happens all the time . That there are extreme assholes that manage to retain (or even improve) their positions isn't evidence against my argument, because it's not my claim that there's a consistent standard; in fact, the lack…

Were these professional teams, or high school/college/food service jobs?

I went to work in tech right after high school; I've never worked a food service job.
Post reply on HN