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Europe's Software Problem

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Re: Europe's Software Problem

#561

Post by [deleted] »

beebeepka wrote: post #417
varispeed wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will probably switch to their own language when in more than 2-3 person. That's just rude and why would you want to socialise with such people. I had some great experiences and even when I was the only person not speaking the local language, everyone spoke English in my presence. There is plenty of people that have standards and if you cannot find them at a given time, just focus on something else.

Isn't it a bit much to expect everyone to accommodate you? What if some don't speak English? It could be rude but not necessarily. Context matters

[deleted]

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#562

Post by mnouquet »

tluyben2 wrote: post #466
jbverschoor wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep.. you get paid shit as a dev here unless you run your own business.. has always been like that, will always be like that. Europe will never be big in software. We have nice livable cities, and we have old cultures, that’s about all what’s good here

Hope you moved as if I were you (reading all your comments here) I would not want to live here, and then in NL no less where I was born and people seem to like internationally. But if you dislike it so much I am not sure why you did not move to the US yet? Or even the UK which is a stepping stone but easier to get to.

I did, now makes probably 5x what I'd make in Europe.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#563

Post by nickpp »

GekkePrutser wrote: post #548
nickpp wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well then - cookie popups that must be clicked every time you visit a website until you accept them, must be ok with you, since "this is how it's supposed to work under GDPR". Sorry, but I don't agree. I consider them a scourge on today's Internet. And I find them a horribly steep price for the "privacy" (really just a lousy IP address obfuscation) you gain in their stead.

You don't have to click it every time. Just once. The choice can be perfectly well saved in a cookie because it's a cookie necessary for site operations. They don't even need approval. Only unnecessary ones do.

So you can save the user's "No cookies" preference in a cookie? Right.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#564

Post by nickpp »

dmitriid wrote: post #554
nickpp wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me the consensus and guideline for website analytics. Please tell me the consensus and guideline on how to store the rejection for using cookies so I don't ask the website visitor every time he visits. Please tell me the consensus and guideline on what "legitimate purposes" are. With examples per industry please. And most of all, please tell me the consensus and guideline for cookie banners and popups, co…

> Please tell me the consensus and guideline for website analytics. Literally described in one of the links. > Please tell me the consensus and guideline on how to store the rejection for using cookies You can use a cookie for that. If it's for a logged-in user, you can store that in the user profile. > Please tell me the consensus and guideline on what "legitimate purposes" are. Text in one of the links literally co…

> Literally described in one of the links.

The https://gdpr.eu/ website is not official. Its description of "analytics cookies" cannot be found anywhere in the actual GDPR & Co regulations.

> You can use a cookie for that.

Use a cookie to store the literal "No cookies" preference? Great example of the contradictory and irrational text of the GDPR.

> Text in one of the links literally contains a link to further reading on legitimate interest.

More vague and contradictory BS.

> Literally described in both links.

Too bad that description is not actually valid and if you'll actually check the GDPR text (not the non-official gdpr.eu website) you'll find no such descriptions.

Moreover, the cookie banner on both websites is actually illegal under GDPR. Check out https://ico.org.uk/ for a correct (but horrifying) implementation.

You are correct, I am not an every-day GDPR expert. I only encounter it when implementing on various websites and there only for analytics - no ads or anything more.

But its requirements were always for the worse. Because of its vague and contradictory definitions everybody (including me) adopted the safest implementation and thus the current web of cookie banners and popups was born. I hope you are happy with it, it solves nothing but it makes everybody's life worse.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#565

Post by nickpp »

jlokier wrote: post #557
nickpp wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very https://gdpr.eu/ website has a cookie banner!!! When everybody breaks a law, including its creators, it's the law that is broken.

Cookie banners are fine when done appropriately. The one on https://gdpr.eu/ is very well done. It does not break the law. It's an example of excellence others should follow. Unintrusive. As easy to opt out as to opt in. Clear buttons, simple language. Clear text. If you prefer to ignore the banner that's fine too. On desktop it's unintrusive and you can just ignore it. I tried scrolling, it just stays out of the way…

Unfortunately the gdpr.eu website is not official. Worse, its cookie banner is illegal under GDPR.

Check out https://ico.org.uk/ for a correct implementation. And cry...

Cookie banners ARE required for something as simple as logs analytics. That is the spirit of the GDPR and it is what makes it a broken law.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#566

Post by emj »

pyb wrote: post #372
emj wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might have been true at some point, but nowdays even smaller payments are easy to send between EU banks. VAT payment is done in your home country, and you can deduct the VAT. The social aspect is harder; the amount of work to get a consistent revenue stream from another EU country can be enormous compared to doing buisness in another city in your own country. There are people who specialize in sales between EU states…

This is inaccurate for VAT.

That's how our accountant handles it I'm no expert so I guess there is devils in the details. My view is that it's getting a lot easier, even if the progress is slow.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#567

Post by emj »

jbverschoor wrote: post #382
emj wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Might have been true at some point, but nowdays even smaller payments are easy to send between EU banks. VAT payment is done in your home country, and you can deduct the VAT. The social aspect is harder; the amount of work to get a consistent revenue stream from another EU country can be enormous compared to doing buisness in another city in your own country. There are people who specialize in sales between EU states…

Plain incorrect for consumer VAT. You have to charge VAT based on the origin of your customer. Different percentages, different ways to figure out the origin of your customer. For businesses you can do reverse VAT, and you’ll have to ask and check that. Bank payments are easy yes, but credit cards are not ubiquitous, online payments are different in all countries, direct debit is not always supported across countries…

I do not see these things as a big problem though, payments are is a service we buy for our own country as well. The same service provider doesn't work everywhere but for us that is not a problem.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#568

Post by raverbashing »

sam_lowry_ wrote: post #370
BitwiseFool wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's certainly an option, but moving to a different nation is a lot to ask for an employee. Despite both countries being in the EU it's still a massive change on an individual level.

Yeah, Just imagine sending kids to a school in a totally different language.

The kids learn the fastest.

(though it's good to have them study a bit before. But with Youtube, Duolingo, etc it's not that hard)

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#569

Post by originalvichy »

mnouquet wrote: post #464
tored wrote: post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but depending on your yearly income there is another tax separate from the normal income tax (inkomskatt), if you earn more than 523 300 SEK you also need to pay "statlig inkomstskatt" at 20% for everything above that rate. And previous year 2020 was the first tax year without värnskatt, an extra 5%, ie 25% total, for everything above 703 000 SEK. It was abolished 2019.

Oh my god, a $100k salary would be taxes at 42%, plus a 25% VAT on general spending, that's just insane...

The only "good" part is that even managers in the Nordics have the same work-life expectations as the workers. Of course there are some managers who take work home more than others but unless you are in the C-level you can tell anyone who tries to make you work more than the usual 37,5-40h a week to kindly fuck off.

Re: Europe's Software Problem

#570

Post by originalvichy »

magicalhippo wrote: post #533
fvdessen wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes far beyond that. If you are in Italy and want to expand to Germany you need to hire german speaking people and that means opening a Sales Office in Germany, and dealing with different labour regulations etc.

Our software essentially is for registering and sending some official forms to the government. We're based in Norway but couldn't get access to Danish governmental systems for testing our because we had no physical presence in Denmark. We couldn't just set up a PO box and get an org. number, apparently that wasn't enough. So far one of our customers have been kind enough to lend us their credentials for testing, but…

If you need a Finnish-speaking person in Norway to help you with the Finnish documentation, shoot me a reply. I'm on the lookout for things on the side to do along with my main job.
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