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US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

bbc.co.uk

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Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#561

Post by sharken »

rhino369 wrote: post #454
jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

Nobody has investigated 7 million doses, so its at least 7, but probably more. The UK incidence rate (for the same issue in the AZ vax) was like 10X what was initially reported. And its probable that these incidents are concentrated in a small segment of the population (young & health maybe women). So your denominator is very inflated. If you can save 20-40 lives by just giving young women Pfizer and using J&J on 50+…

It's all pretty speculative at this point, but it seems very reasonable to investigate the J&J vaccine as it causes the same problems as AZ.

When that investigation ends, then the J&J vaccine can be opened up for those willing to take the risk, which by that time is better known.

I think we still have to remember that vaccinating everybody is not needed to resume a normal life.

Personally I wouldn't want a vaccine with the problems that AZ and J&J have, but if others are willing then they should have the opportunity.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#562

Post by Verdex »

throwawaysea wrote: post #476
jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

I think that's not a very charitable take on "anti-vaxers". People are against injecting something new that has not stood the test of time. We have no idea what the actual frequency of this issue is (maybe more reports will come in), or if there are other lurking side effects waiting to be observed as a pattern, or if there are long-term effects. What if news of this spurs others to make the connection with the J&J v…

In addition, I'm very concerned that if we call people afraid of the covid vaccines anti-vaxxers that they will decide to join forces with real anti-vaxxers.

I know several people who are not interested in covid vaccines for what as far as I can tell are political reasons (although there are a few concerns about using a new technology before long term studies are performed). Right now they aren't anti-vaxxers. They get vaccines and they get their children vaccinated. It's just the new covid ones that they're hesitant about.

If we just lump them in with anti-vaxxers then they might decide to go make friends with the real anti-vaxxers. And as a big of a problem as covid has been, I'm more concerned about polio making a comeback tour.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#563

Post by lefrancaiz »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #551
jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

> oh and is 100% effective at stopping you from dying. Literally no one that has received the vaccine has died from COVID19. This is misinformation (and I call it that because it is being widely repeated in major new sources). It's an improper generalization from what was observed in a very small sample of confirmed Covid cases in the vaccine trials. https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucelee/2021/04/11/3-breakthro...

You're correct. NPR has reported some deaths in vaccinated people in this article. https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2021/04/13/9864114...

>So far, more than 74 million people have gotten fully vaccinated in the United States. It's unclear how many have later gotten infected with the coronavirus anyway. But Michigan, Washington and other states have reported hundreds of cases. Most people have gotten only mildly ill, but some have gotten very sick. Some have even died.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#564

Post by thelean12 »

hamadj wrote: post #490
jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

I think it is a disservice to outright label people as anti-vaxers simply for questioning the risk-calculus of vaccines. The (1/7 million) is the current, unconditional and empirically observed adverse effect of the vaccine - this is a somewhat noisy measure of the true prevalence of this issue. It is okay to be cautious and there are legitimate concerns, and quite frankly, I trust the FDA have good reason to pause t…

> I think it is a disservice to outright label people as anti-vaxers simply for questioning the risk-calculus of vaccines.

It's the same idea though, and should still be called out. It's people who have unqualified medical opinions, and who are then often spreading that opinion to others as if it's useful.

Let the agencies figure it out, pay attention to the latest recommendations from them, and go with that. Anything else is just the blind leading the blind and should be called out.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#565

Post by jjk166 »

greenwich26 wrote: post #401
jjk166 wrote: post #331

6 cases in 7 million doses over 3 months is exactly the rate that CVST would normally be expected at. While that doesn't mean we shouldn't investigate, it does mean there is no reason to be alarmed at this time. > Cerebral venous sinus thrombosis is rare, with an estimated 3-4 cases per million annual incidence in adults. While it may occur in all age groups, it is most common in the third decade. 75% are female. [0]…

Over the past 2 weeks, the reported rate of these events associated with the AZ vaccine has gone from 1 in a million, to 1 in 30,000 [0]. [0] https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2104882

The clots associated with the AZ vaccine aren't CVST.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#566

Post by AndrewBissell »

Verdex wrote: post #486
jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

> I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So, take pause and examine the situation. Are these people actually anti-vaxxers, ie they oppose all vaccination due to weird paranoia about autism due to a discredited "study". OR are they against this one vaccine because of political affiliation. I'm really concerned that if we call out the people who are afraid of this one v…

> OR are they against this one vaccine because of political affiliation.

It's not easily attributable to "political affiliation." Trump was touting the vaccines through his whole campaign and is still bragging and taking credit for them. MSNBC did one of those TV segments where they go and interview backwards people from America's hinterland who weren't planning to get vaccinated, and although most were Trump voters, not a single one said they would change their mind if he advocated taking it.

The actual difference between these vaccines and others which is driving skepticism is that we have no observational data about their long-term effects.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#567

Post by Dumblydorr »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

Modern society is not monolithic. It is a vast chaotic network, many nodes of which are surrounded by other nodes, all of which are misinformed.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#568

Post by fspeech »

jjk166 wrote: post #542
wallacoloo wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> All six cases were in women aged between 18 and 48, with symptoms appearing six to 13 days after vaccination. All the observed cases occurred shortly after vaccination, so I’m not sure 3 months is the right divisor to use in your comparison.

You are only looking at people a short time after vaccination. Anyone in the population who had a clot prior to being vaccinated or who will get a clot later this year have not been counted.

That is exactly the point. Using the background rate you quoted from Wikipedia within a two week window you are expected to see around one case. So most of the cases can not be explained by the background.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#569

Post by sergiotapia »

jaegerpicker wrote: post #406

7 people out of 7 million dose's. That's why they stopped. My wife and I got the J&J shot on Saturday so I'm directly at risk and I'd take it everytime even if the risk was 10 times what it currently is. I've already seen a bunch of anit-vaxers referring to this in new articles this morning. So let's see, 1 in a million chance that the vaccine will make you sick (only 1 person has died so far, which is terrible but i…

Question for you, if you like those odds, why get the vaccine at all? If you're not obese covid won't do anything to you except give you a lil flu.

Curious about your answer.

Re: US agencies call for pause in Johnson & Johnson vaccine

#570

Post by throwawayboise »

pbak wrote: post #105
huffmsa wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being obese also causes deep vein thrombosis at a rate of 1/1000, but we're perfectly okay with people eating their way to blood clots.

The difference being that you can't "catch" being obese with a viral infection.

The plot twist being that the virus we're discussing is by far more dangerous to the obese than to the healthy.
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