Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#561

Post by gray_-_wolf » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 4:51 PM UTC

_bohm wrote: post #469

heymijo wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This past year wasn't WFH. This was WFH during a pandemic. Thinking they are the same is a mistake.

Curious what you think the main differences are. Never did WFH until the pandemic, and will probably continue working from home for some time after things open back up. I have a hard time seeing how my day-to-day will differ significantly post-pandemic.

> Curious what you think the main differences are.

From my experience (2 days/week WFH before pandemic):

1. People with kids have to babysit (I do not have children, but people who have are noticeably impacted by this)

2. Everything is closed, so casual outing to coffee shop or just grabbing a lunch with colleagues not possible. Some goes for just going to gym for a bit.

3. Before the pandemic, sometimes we did morning in the office filled with debate/design work, then lunch and then go home to bunker down and code. Again, not possible now.

4. Two adults in one room makes meetings annoying (well, basically openspace but without the free food).

5. Team beer is remote now, which I mean, kinda works. I get drunk anyway. But still, suck a bit.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#562

Post by andrewzah » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

KptMarchewa wrote: post #556

andrewzah wrote: post #537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a plethora of groups for adults. There are groups for tabletop/board games, music, movies, sports, hiking, etc. There's likely groups near you on meetup.com or facebook groups. For music specifically there are local scenes. If you go to local places consistently, you'll see some of the same faces. Etc. I like programming, but I would find it very boring to only be friends with people in the same industry as…

Meetups or facebook groups select people who are into meetups.

For meetup.com specifically, maybe, but there are plenty of facebook groups around hobbies that aren't specifically "meetup" oriented. You could look for organizations specifically in your area, and chances are they'll have a facebook group, facebook page for events, or a meetup account.

I also don't see this as an issue. If you want to meet people, that's a great way to do so. I've done it across America and in Korea, and I have made many friends from it.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#563

Post by pnt12 » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 5:28 PM UTC

heisenbit wrote: post #327

lkramer wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing I have noticed is that while the old hats (those hired some time before the pandemic) are as productive, or maybe even more productive while working remote, it's a struggle to bring in new people, especially more junior people. Maybe these are problems that can be solved, but it seems that an already a challenging and stressful situation, joining a new company, is even more difficult when you are not able t…

I have joined a company remotely and I don't feel I got slower productive than before. The ability to do pair work is almost enhanced and the fact that everyone is able and willing to be called in to help has accelerated learning and integration in some areas which I found harder in the past. Also keep in mind that it may be slower than with direct in person mentoring but there can also be the opposite of in person m…

Off-topic, but how do you feel about pair programming?

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#564

Post by whywhywhywhy » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

andrewzah wrote: post #534

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd suspect the results would be different, the fact a commute is forced puts your brain into the mode where you solve creative problems in the background without thinking about them. There are good reasons ideas come out of nowhere to you in the shower or on a bus. That said I'd never ever have a 1+ hour commutes, 30 minutes is plenty but I have noticed a difference in inspiration this year and I put it down to this…

"a commute is forced puts your brain into the mode where you solve creative problems in the background without thinking about them" I don't think about work outside of work, which includes commuting. I may have an epiphany while showering or talking a walk, but in the car I listen to music or podcasts. That is Me Time, not Employer Time.

My point is creativity works by connections happening while your doing autonomous tasks like showering, spacing out on a train or bus.

You might not be thinking about work, but your brain is.

Maybe I care about this more because I'm a designer so, creativity is what I'm judged on.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#565

Post by darawk » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 5:50 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #319

darawk wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think that executives are forcing developers to come into the office so that they can play politics with their subordinates?

They don't play politics with their subordinates, they play politics with their peers and their superiors. Developers are "human resources" - resources are there to be exploited, not catered for.

That's my point, hence the parent's explanation doesn't make sense.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#566

Post by andrewzah » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 5:53 PM UTC

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #564

andrewzah wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"a commute is forced puts your brain into the mode where you solve creative problems in the background without thinking about them" I don't think about work outside of work, which includes commuting. I may have an epiphany while showering or talking a walk, but in the car I listen to music or podcasts. That is Me Time, not Employer Time.

My point is creativity works by connections happening while your doing autonomous tasks like showering, spacing out on a train or bus. You might not be thinking about work, but your brain is. Maybe I care about this more because I'm a designer so, creativity is what I'm judged on.

"You might not be thinking about work, but your brain is."

This is definitely true after work sometimes, but a commute is not necessary for this. Walking helps similarly and is healthier, too. For me personally, I tune everything out and listen to music most of the time while commuting, or simply meditate (specifically not dwelling on any thoughts).

"Maybe I care about this more because I'm a designer so, creativity is what I'm judged on."

I'm not sure if you intended this, but this could be read that you're implying that programming is not a creative profession. Which is wholly false.

Part of tackling hard problems is coming up with creative solutions. One absolutely needs creativity and vision to architect larger applications and coordinated services.

I've met accountants that are more creative than some jazz musicians, but the creative work they do is much more abstract and not as intrinsically understandable as a musician that's improvising on a tune.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#567

Post by jbjbjbjb » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

bumbada wrote: post #334

I have been working remotely for decades. Most people can't work remotely and productively because they are not trained to do so. E.g. You are in your office (inside your home) and your wife, your dog or child enters it demanding you do some kind of non important issue right now, distracting you from your work.You need to be trained to not them let them distract you. The people living in your house need to be trained…

I can’t understand the 14 days work from home limit.

These are supposedly hard working, intelligent, highly motivated and highly educated and highly paid staff.

Yet they can’t even give them a few days a month to work from home. 14 days a year is totally incongruous.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#568

Post by DataJunkie » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 6:23 PM UTC

kyrra wrote: post #477

ohthehugemanate wrote: post #199

Just in case you were operating under the illusion that tech giants are run by forward thinking executives who are immune to the usual politics and problems of corporate life. Nope, most of their exec layer is a bunch of people who cut their teeth the industry in the 90's, and are operating within a thick fog of local workplace politics. I guarantee that behind this move is an executive who believes that developers n…

Googler opinions are my own. I'd disagree at least a little here. Google has been surveying their staff about what they want to do after the pandemic is over, see this twitter thread where Google published some of it's data: https://mobile.twitter.com/lifeatgoogle/status/1308529118531... People are split on what they want. Maybe people could be better trained to wfh, but some of us just prefer an office. While I am l…

Oh no, please don't start with the magical hallway conversations. I've never had a worthwhile conversation in a hallway or microkitchen, ever. This argument needs to die.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#569

Post by cozzyd » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 6:29 PM UTC

akadruid1 wrote: post #171

cozzyd wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you can take the bus or train?

In most places, buses are not substantially better emissions-wise than private cars. Typical deployments have them travelling empty or nearly empty most of the day which negates the savings of packed rush hour trips. Trains are much better of course but only exist for a few routes. Both are substantially worse than working from home.

That certainly does not describe the buses I ride, and whether or not you take the bus has a very marginal effect on total emissions from the bus.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

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Post by tomerv » Thu, Apr 01, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

gipp wrote: post #473

alexgmcm wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they do then why don't they share it? I mean they must realise this is a pretty unpopular decision so why not share their justification. Otherwise it's just an appeal to authority - "Ours not to reason why.."

It's not "pretty unpopular", a large majority of employees strongly want to come back to the office at least part time. And this headline is ridiculously misleading, they committed to letting people work remotely till September ages ago, and that hasn't changed. The only thing that happened was they finally put a timeline on when people can come back voluntarily. And there is quite a bit of data on it, most of which…

Yes, many employees want to come to the office part time. But Google says they will need to come to the office (almost) all the time. How many people want that?