Earlier quoted context omitted.
I guess I don’t remember things the same. In my state, the most extreme restrictions (basically, everything is closed that isn’t remote or essential work) were lifted after a bit. I don’t recall ever being under the impression that restrictions would ever be completely lifted until the vaccine was rolled out. I recall at the time there being a lot of worry about how long that would take. I also don’t recall anything…
If your (state, country, whatever) has a 100% vaccination policy to "prevent mutations", then how can you possibly not have a vaccination passport?
Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
561–570 of 572 posts
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#562Earlier quoted context omitted.
If your (state, country, whatever) has a 100% vaccination policy to "prevent mutations", then how can you possibly not have a vaccination passport?
There is no mandatory vaccine policy in the US. Where are are there?
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#563Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's not forget that the German government resorts to "alternative facts" since the pandemic began just as they see fit. When we had nor masks available last march, they said "masks are useless" two months later they were mandatory "because they are the best thing we have". Recently, a post by the government on Facebook said "AstraZeneca gave us one of the best vaccines ever" just as people started to cancel their a…
I'm not aware what exactly the German government has said in the past w.r.t mask usage. However, governments claiming mask usage was not required near the start of the pandemic followed by them later requiring people to use masks was actually an understandable decision on their part from what I've understood of the situation as it unveiled. At the beginning of the pandemic, it was believed that the virus was using dr…
> Considering the mask shortages faced in many countries at the time due to panic buying, the communications made by governments to the public w.r.t the benefits of masks make sense from a cost benefit perspective since it would guarantee that the people who needed the masks the most (medical workers and sick people) would receive them and reduce the spread of the virus.
The government lying to its people is never acceptable. Also, there was plenty of time to ramp up mask production when the virus was spreading in China and later Italy. Taiwan did this successfully, why did supposedly more developed countries fail so badly at ensuring adequate mask supply?
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#564Earlier quoted context omitted.
Let's not forget that the German government resorts to "alternative facts" since the pandemic began just as they see fit. When we had nor masks available last march, they said "masks are useless" two months later they were mandatory "because they are the best thing we have". Recently, a post by the government on Facebook said "AstraZeneca gave us one of the best vaccines ever" just as people started to cancel their a…
Also, “closing the borders is absolutely out of the question”.
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#565Earlier quoted context omitted.
Your reasoning does not make sense at all. I hope you're just missing GP's point. Maintaining a 1 meter distance has been shown to reduce the likelihood of contagion by 80%. Using a face mask has been shown to reduce the likelihood of contagion by 40%. With that in mind, and knowing that these were only two of the many measures made to reduce the infection rate, your parahprased statement "the measures were meaningle…
> and it's similarly obvious that the defensive measures have prevented that outcome most places. I'm saying that looking at aggregate outcomes and comparing locations that took these precautions to ones that didn't, this isn't obvious at all. It looks to me more like these defensive measures didn't work, and I kinda want to know why, if they're as effective as the percentages you gave.
It's hard to find a society that took no measures, as the measures so obviously work and no one wants an uncontrolled epidemic, but there's plenty of societies that had differing degrees of catastrophe up to the point where they realized this or started being serious about it. Czech Republic, Peru, Brazil, Bergamo (the latter just being unaware) +++.
Covid initially had a reproductive number between 3 and 6 in the absence of measures - higher for the latest mutations. A cumulative reduction of R of 80% + 40% would make this an R of ~0.25-0.50, but that's assuming 100% compliance everywhere and always.
Indeed, this is what you see in societies that were serious enough but didn't eradicate the virus altogether -- largely no significant epidemic, but wildfire-like eruptions of disease in local communities that don't strictly follow the measures. E.g. classrooms, public transport, homes, pubs/concerts and so on. Norway, as a case in point, currently has an R of 1.33, with measures that kept R cleanly below zero until the British mutation became dominant (through initial seeding through import and then a few almost-inevitable cases). Cities where measures can almost always be followed have almost no disease, the illness only spreads in areas where many people live close together and have children/teenagers in school. This alone is enough to threaten the capacity of intensive care.
Personally I don't really think this merits much debate anymore, if the objective is to seek the truth rather than some ulterior motive (e.g. politicians who wouldn't mind if the pension liabilities fell). It's not subtle if you actually dig into the details.
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#566Earlier quoted context omitted.
Every country in the world except South Korea, HK, China and Taiwan failed to recognise the importance of masks at the beginning only to later change their minds.
No. They willfully misrepresented their importance so that civilians didn’t buy them before the hospitals could. They were unprepared to respond to the increase in demand due to their complete incompetence. Anyone using a shred of logic saw through the “masks don’t work” insanity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parallel_trading_in_Hong_Kong
Globalization came to bite the hand that easily gave production out of hand for single-use items.
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#567Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also, “closing the borders is absolutely out of the question”.
To be fair, country borders in the EU are not that useful for containing anything. Earlier and better travel restrictions - both cross countries and between different areas in one country - would have been useful though.
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
You can check overall deaths for Europe on Euromomo. It shows that despite everything we've done we've had significant more deaths in certain age groups. You seem to be genuinely curious. For those who want to scoff it off: look at those numbers and consider the fact that these numbers are what we see after a war-sized effort to prevent more damage: in most populations only a few percent have been hit. At the moment…
> and consider the fact that these numbers are what we see after a war-sized effort to prevent more damage Which doesn't seem to have worked - infection rates are dropping off all around the world, regardless of the vaccination levels. It looks more like we hit natural herd immunity at about the same time in different places whether or not masks and lockdowns were used.
It did work, hospitals can only absorbs so many patients in ICU per weeks/months. Once an hospital is at 100% capacity people start dying because they can't be treated (not only for covid)
It really isn't rocket science, of course natural herd immunity is helping, spreading it over a year vs a month is a game changer though.
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#569Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no mandatory vaccine policy in the US. Where are are there?
So how will "everyone be vaccinated"? It won't be mandatory, but I'm sure it'll be difficult to refuse.
Re: Germany pauses AstraZeneca vaccinations as a 'precaution'
#570Google Translate: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&u=https:/...