YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#561

Post by Minor49er » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

umvi wrote: post #535

Minor49er wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So according to your link and yourself, a graduate degree may encompass both master's and doctoral degrees, which would only serve to obscure the meaning. Also, I don't think you intended it to be this way, but your inclusion of the pronunciation comes off as condescending.

I only included the pronunciation because you used a version of "graduate" in your original comment that has a different pronunciation and different meaning. (gra-jə-wāt vs. gra-jə-wət) > a graduate degree may encompass both master's and doctoral degrees, which would only serve to obscure the meaning. Nope, 99% of the time "graduate degree" == "master's degree". Usually "postgraduate degree" is used to refer to docto…

>I only included the pronunciation because you used a version of "graduate" in your original comment that has a different pronunciation and different meaning.

You should really learn about linguistic morphology.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#562

Post by prepend » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 11:17 PM UTC

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #532

prepend wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whose feelings are well-founded and whose aren't? This is the gist of it and is really hard to tell, even though some people claim it’s easy. I would measure what side makes sense based on their recommended interventions. For example, if one side is so certain they want to ban speech that contradicts them then they are probably wrong. It takes pretty clear evidence for what is right and wrong and lots of effort to…

> This is the gist of it and is really hard to tell, even though some people claim it’s easy. It seems to me that people are nearly universally assuming that this is easy, and that obviously their side is always absolutely correct, and questioning that is basically heretic. This is how we end up always blaming the evil other side, and with "you're either with us or against us".

I used to think this was easy until I had to implement even really simple versions for small populations. They devolve quickly and aren’t very valuable compared to other activities.

That and as much as people complain, there’s a magical thinking that technology can do anything they see in sci-fi or an AI consultant has told them is possible.

So I would like to hear back from people after they’ve tried for a while.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#563

Post by Fogest » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 11:31 PM UTC

curlypaul924 wrote: post #554

Fogest wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I have never in my life heard of a damn cookie being called racist. That is insane. I am not going to be caution in the least with using that anaology. I am using a cookie to talk about how ridiculous things are and you're telling me a cookie is offensive. That is insane.

Please do not misconstrue what I have said. The term "oreo" has a long history of being used as a racist epithet. There is nothing wrong with using it as an analogy, but in a discussion on racism, it might be better to pick a cookie with a similar color scheme that does not already have racist connotations, such as a Moon Pie. You are, of course, free to use whatever analogy you feel best expresses your point.

Interesting, I will continue to use it as I think it still demonstrates the point. I have never in my life heard of a cookie being used in a racist way. I've heard crackers being used in racist ways though.

Regardless it's a weird world out there!

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#564

Post by mancerayder » Mon, Feb 22, 2021, 11:56 PM UTC

inopinatus wrote: post #555

mancerayder wrote: post #512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> an extremely small set of activists and journalists >This ratifies the well-known aphorism that a small group of dedicated individuals can change the world. It does not undermine the necessity for showing assholes the door. Wonderful. And the "asshole" designation that these Elect ("extremely small set of ..." as was put above) - how do they get to decide who's an asshole and gets shown the door, what are their cr…

> these Elect Again, a statement dripping with derision, that is actually just sticking up for the rights of assholes. > how do they get to decide who's an asshole Peddling a message harmful to others. > what is the procedure for the rest of us to appeal "appeal" is for crooks, not wankers being thrown out of the pub

That's your opinion, that I'm sticking up for the rights of assholes. And by the way, I'm not surprised that someone who favors censorship and calls out wankers, would also interpret for someone else what they believe, before they said anything. But I'll say it now: the argument against censorship isn't a defense of assholes and wankers (and people you don't like), it's an appeal for the very historical, empirically shown problem with censorship that it's hard to have an unbiased, fair and accountable body of censors. Thus, you inevitably end up with good ideas that get thrown out with the bad, if you take a generous argument, and if you want to be cynical about it, you get critical ideas thrown out when they don't match mainstream narrative. This latter matters only little now, but during wartime or times of strife, boy does it matter.

Your name-calling should be enough for people to raise their eyebrows at the question: who decides what gets censored.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#565

Post by dmingod666 » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 1:17 AM UTC

SilverRed wrote: post #346

dmingod666 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The github change is brought up by a lot by people, but, all github does here is this. On the default set of commands it shows you if you don't have a repo pushed, it shows you the help command with 'main', instead of 'master'. Just a word change on a default help document, that's it. If you knew your commands you wouldn't even notice this. If you just make a repo and push your existing code to github, it will work w…

iirc git was also looking in to changing the default name when you run git init. Yes, it makes no difference at all, its just a name. But the fact is that a lot of people felt it very important to make this nonsensical change. There is no reason why the colors of chess pieces would not fall under the same justifications.

It was GitHub who wanted to make this change. I don't think they can impact how the git command works. GitHub has a separate desktop UI client but afaik the git binary is from a different organization.

I think if you look at arbitrary religious restrictions, those also probably trace their origins to an overactive neurotic mind with too much time on their hands. Those guys then develop nonsensical restrictions.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#566

Post by LocalH » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

perryizgr8 wrote: post #98

LocalH wrote: post #54

It should be a criminal act to ban someone from your platform without pointing exactly to why they were banned. "Oh but we can't expose details of our ban process for people to game" Bullshit. They just don't want to have to answer to anyone for cutting them off.

Why? YouTube has no obligation to host anyone's videos. If these chess channels don't like it they can make their own YouTube.

And business owners should have no obligation to provide fair access to their services, right? They should be able to refuse service for any reason?

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#567

Post by awillen » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 3:10 AM UTC

serf wrote: post #249

awillen wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People forget that they get these free services for free, and a big portion of that is because ML tools are able to cheaply do a really hard job of moderating. You hear about things like this because they're so unusual, which is a testament to the amount of time they work correctly without being noticed. Granted, there have been some issues with people getting banned from Google services for what appear to be wrong r…

> ...that is because ML tools are able to cheaply do a really hard job of moderating I mean , YouTube is huge, but we had moderation-at-scale before ML was a popular phrase to bandy around. 'ML' and 'Algorithms' are just convenient non-human bogeyman that any corporation can pin all their woes on without batting an eye right now -- a convenient explanation tool for when things go wrong. I am going to take a bold stan…

Okay, fine, so an algorithm can't be at fault. Ultimately it doesn't matter whether it's an algorithm. The point is that at this scale, moderation mistakes will be made. Doesn't matter if it's humans or ML or what have you. People rush to condemn the service and the people who make it as a result of these very, very seldomly occurring mistakes, but there is no system that exists that would allow perfect moderation at this scale.

Your work comparison just isn't valid because there is no employer with a number of employees within several orders of magnitude of the number of videos on YouTube.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#568

Post by SilverRed » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 4:04 AM UTC

dmingod666 wrote: post #565

SilverRed wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iirc git was also looking in to changing the default name when you run git init. Yes, it makes no difference at all, its just a name. But the fact is that a lot of people felt it very important to make this nonsensical change. There is no reason why the colors of chess pieces would not fall under the same justifications.

It was GitHub who wanted to make this change. I don't think they can impact how the git command works. GitHub has a separate desktop UI client but afaik the git binary is from a different organization. I think if you look at arbitrary religious restrictions, those also probably trace their origins to an overactive neurotic mind with too much time on their hands. Those guys then develop nonsensical restrictions.

>I don't think they can impact how the git command works.

The git team independently discussed it on the git mailing list after github made the move and decided they want to move in the same direction.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#569

Post by SilverRed » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 4:08 AM UTC

curlypaul924 wrote: post #410

SilverRed wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Youtube is in between a rock and a hard place as well as all user generated content sites. Either they automate removing content and end up removing some of the good with the mountains of bad, or they do it manually which costs a fortune and is too slow. The local news is still ridiculing Facebook because they left the stream up for the NZ shooting for hours and their stated reason "No one watching the video had repo…

> Either they automate removing content and end up removing some of the good with the mountains of bad, or they do it manually which costs a fortune and is too slow. I think this is a false dichotomy; they could automate flagging for human review instead. This would address the cost though not the speed. Content awaiting review could be disabled, or it could be disabled only if it is deemed sufficiently egregious.

>they could automate flagging for human review instead.

I'm not sure this would save them in many cases. Most of the abusive content on facebook is not easily identifiable. I don't think the current AI systems are up to the task. They may be able to identify a human and a dog are in the video but not tell the difference between petting the dog or punching it.

Similarly they likely can not tell the difference between someone at a shooting range or committing a mass shooting.

Just like it is too much to expect police to stop all crime before it happens, I think it is too much to expect platforms to remove violating content before it is reported.

Re: YouTube blocked chess channel after mistaken detection of racial slurs

#570

Post by inopinatus » Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 4:49 AM UTC

mancerayder wrote: post #564

inopinatus wrote: post #555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> these Elect Again, a statement dripping with derision, that is actually just sticking up for the rights of assholes. > how do they get to decide who's an asshole Peddling a message harmful to others. > what is the procedure for the rest of us to appeal "appeal" is for crooks, not wankers being thrown out of the pub

That's your opinion, that I'm sticking up for the rights of assholes. And by the way, I'm not surprised that someone who favors censorship and calls out wankers, would also interpret for someone else what they believe, before they said anything. But I'll say it now: the argument against censorship isn't a defense of assholes and wankers (and people you don't like), it's an appeal for the very historical, empirically…

Since there's no censorship occurring, this foaming-mouthed rant is simply more of the same.

Tip for idiots thrown out of pubs: yelling at the bouncers isn't going to get your name off the landlord's shit-list, and you don't have a right to make everyone listen to your drivel.