Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption • Hacker News Board

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#561

Post by tyfon » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:04 PM UTC

viraptor wrote: post #253

buran77 wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Charging in much of Europe is really not a great experience. It's a fragmented market, different electricity providers (this matters, some chargers really want you to be a customer of a specific electricity provider, some just offer different prices depending on this), different charging networks, different plugs, different apps and payment methods, different behavior even if you're seemingly in the same network, wil…

This sounds like an opportunity for an independent app unifying all of those and gathering/displaying real usability data. I don't think it could make official app stores due to having to reverse-engineer payment APIs of others, but... maybe something open-source and side-loaded?

This exists, it's called plugsurfing [1]. They do charge a 10% surplus though.

[1] https://www.plugsurfing.com/home

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#562

Post by ClumsyPilot » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:12 PM UTC

mjul wrote: post #545

jiggawatts wrote: post #246

My problem is renting apartments. If you ask the strata or the building managers about charging points in the carpark, they look at you like you're speaking Klingon. This is true of even very recently completed buildings in well-off areas of relatively wealthy western countries. Heck, I just walked past three Teslas in my building's car park, one of which is new and wasn't there last week! Do people... not plan ahead…

I think the market has already solved this with companies like E-on and the like solving all the complexity for both public and private charging stations. Perhaps there is still an open market opportunity for this in your local market for entrepreneurs to fill.

The market hasn't solved jack untill they have actually installed enough chargers to support at least 50% EV ownership. Untill then the jury is still out, so please don't claim that the probelm is solved and we can rest easy because 'muh market'

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#563

Post by Daho0n » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:13 PM UTC

lostlogin wrote: post #478

TheSmiddy wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in China where everybody rides ebikes and my building has a free for all parking space where 2/3rds of the parks have no chargers and the spots with charge ports all have qr codes you scan and pay with wechat to turn the port on. This is an easy problem to solve.

It sounds good - but the dark side of wechat and social credit lurks in the back of my mind. That is not an easy problem to solve.

Of course it is easy. You can just pay with a credit card or mobile payment etc. like is already done when paying for parking. Even easier, the charging around where I live you have an account and a card and you just swipe and charge and the bank transfers the money monthly. Solved many years ago. The only thing that isn't all the way solved is the massive drain charging lots of cars at the same time can induce.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#564

Post by pfdietz » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:14 PM UTC

ascorbic wrote: post #422

jiggawatts wrote: post #246

My problem is renting apartments. If you ask the strata or the building managers about charging points in the carpark, they look at you like you're speaking Klingon. This is true of even very recently completed buildings in well-off areas of relatively wealthy western countries. Heck, I just walked past three Teslas in my building's car park, one of which is new and wasn't there last week! Do people... not plan ahead…

I used to just charge at work. Workplaces seem more likely to be able to persuade to install charging points.

Workplace charging also allows the charging to occur during daylight hours, when solar energy is more available.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#565

Post by pfdietz » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #266

jiggawatts wrote: post #246

My problem is renting apartments. If you ask the strata or the building managers about charging points in the carpark, they look at you like you're speaking Klingon. This is true of even very recently completed buildings in well-off areas of relatively wealthy western countries. Heck, I just walked past three Teslas in my building's car park, one of which is new and wasn't there last week! Do people... not plan ahead…

I rent a townhouse right now. When I moved in, the landlord allowed me to install a 240v outlet in the garage at my own expense.

And why not? You upgraded his property and he didn't have to pay a dime.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#566

Post by epistasis » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:17 PM UTC

oblio wrote: post #541

ferongr wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Carrying 35kg of groceries sucks. Especially when it rains. Personally, I drive 2km to a larger store with underground parking instead of visiting the store two blocks away.

That's a very narrow minded approach :-) People don't carry around 35kg of groceries each time they go to the local supermarket. They buy a tiny bit of what they need each day, walking back from home/school, since it takes so little time and often it's on the way, anyway. Carrying 2-5-6-7-8-10kg is quite easy.

I've had a frustrating form of this conversation with so many Americans. The concept of buying less than 40L of soda at a time, because presumably they drink many liters per day, is hard to overcome for some.

They literally will not believe that it is possible to but a days worth of groceries every day, and get fresh, quality food.

But the more people saying that it can be done, and is a superior way to shop, the more likely we will convince them finally.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#567

Post by Daho0n » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:24 PM UTC

theshrike79 wrote: post #549

twblalock wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gas stations seem to be able to handle it. Why can't we expect the same for charging stations? Build for peak capacity. The chargers don't draw much when they aren't plugged in to cars. If we expect to succeed with charging infrastructure we need to make it convenient, even during holidays.

Building a gas station for peak capacity would mean building so many pumps that you never have to queue. Even when people leave their car by the pump while going to the bathroom or grab a slushie and some snacks.

That is a solved problem in most of the world. I have waited at a gas station at most 5 times in my life and never more than 2-4 minutes. Going to the bathroom or leaving the pump I have never seen anyone do. If I did I would turn off the pump at the big red STOP button as leaving the pump running unattended is illegal.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#568

Post by vishnugupta » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:26 PM UTC

erikrothoff wrote: post #456

whatever1 wrote: post #427

EVs currently have high enough utility in the wealthy suburbia where you own your garage and have the capability to charge overnight. If you are a euro-peasant living in a third floor apartment, street parking and commuting to work, then an EV has very little utility to offer. You cannot expect that people will go on a regular basis to charge stations and spend an hour to charge their car. You cannot also have a reas…

I’m literally a euro-peasant in my third floor apartment with street parking outside my third floor apartment window. The city has but up a bunch of charging parking stations on said street parking and it’s great. There are no gas stations on the ”island” (Södermalm, Stockholm) I live on, but a ton of electric street parking charging stations. I think the decentralisation of these types of charging stations will win…

> The city has but up a bunch of charging parking stations on said street parking and it’s great

I noticed this in Amsterdam. Over a year period (late 2018 - late 2020), the street-parking-charging-stations went from virtually non-existent to about 2-3 in a 1KM radius and increasing.

I guess it's logistically easier to build such a charging network compared to say gas stations. They take very little space, about a square foot and ~1.5 meter tall.

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#569

Post by mbg721 » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:26 PM UTC

epistasis wrote: post #566

oblio wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a very narrow minded approach :-) People don't carry around 35kg of groceries each time they go to the local supermarket. They buy a tiny bit of what they need each day, walking back from home/school, since it takes so little time and often it's on the way, anyway. Carrying 2-5-6-7-8-10kg is quite easy.

I've had a frustrating form of this conversation with so many Americans. The concept of buying less than 40L of soda at a time, because presumably they drink many liters per day, is hard to overcome for some. They literally will not believe that it is possible to but a days worth of groceries every day, and get fresh, quality food. But the more people saying that it can be done, and is a superior way to shop, the mor…

You can get a 2L bottle of soda for $3, or $1.29 each if you buy a multiple of 6 of them...

Re: Electric vehicles close to ‘tipping point’ of mass adoption

#570

Post by JoeAltmaier » Sat, Jan 23, 2021, 1:33 PM UTC

vishnugupta wrote: post #568

erikrothoff wrote: post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m literally a euro-peasant in my third floor apartment with street parking outside my third floor apartment window. The city has but up a bunch of charging parking stations on said street parking and it’s great. There are no gas stations on the ”island” (Södermalm, Stockholm) I live on, but a ton of electric street parking charging stations. I think the decentralisation of these types of charging stations will win…

> The city has but up a bunch of charging parking stations on said street parking and it’s great I noticed this in Amsterdam. Over a year period (late 2018 - late 2020), the street-parking-charging-stations went from virtually non-existent to about 2-3 in a 1KM radius and increasing. I guess it's logistically easier to build such a charging network compared to say gas stations. They take very little space, about a sq…

They could replace service station charging, but you'd need an app that navigated you to one that's available. And make a reservation, so you didn't keep heading toward the nearest just to find it occupied. And if they were in interesting locations e.g. near a restaurant or shopping or bathrooms or a coffee shop.

But that sounds just like a service station.