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Simple Bank Is Closing

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Re: Simple Bank Is Closing

#561

Post by pythonaut_16 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #546
1123581321 wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the computer example, someone using the envelope system would decide not to buy the computer if the balance in the appropriate account was short. It’s just a different approach to timing and limiting purchases.

It still sounds a bit weird to me. If I need something, I will buy it unless I don't have cash for it. The concept of buying stuff just because I still have some spare cash in some bucket but I stop once bucket is empty feels so strange to me, some sort of forced self-check on compulsive buyers. If that's the case, I would rather look for solution in the root cause of such behavior rather than symptoms. Maybe the mot…

You don't have to buy something once the bucket is full. The idea is just to have the money allocated so it's ready when you need it.

For some things those will be fixed monthly expenses (rent, insurance, mortgage. Others will be variable, like grocery shopping, maybe clothing. And others will be bigger purchases like a computer.

It's just another framework or set of tools for budgeting your money out into the future. YNAB (You Need a Budget) has some decent articles on their blog about the concept. Dave Ramsey might be helpful too if you really want to understand the motivation behind this kind of system.

Re: Simple Bank Is Closing

#562

Post by 1123581321 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #546
1123581321 wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the computer example, someone using the envelope system would decide not to buy the computer if the balance in the appropriate account was short. It’s just a different approach to timing and limiting purchases.

It still sounds a bit weird to me. If I need something, I will buy it unless I don't have cash for it. The concept of buying stuff just because I still have some spare cash in some bucket but I stop once bucket is empty feels so strange to me, some sort of forced self-check on compulsive buyers. If that's the case, I would rather look for solution in the root cause of such behavior rather than symptoms. Maybe the mot…

Yes, exactly—-you don’t have the spending problem that some people have, or don’t have the desire to save money to the same extent that some have.

Root cause analysis is of course best if successful and can be completed quickly enough.

Re: Simple Bank Is Closing

#563

Post by selykg »

nichos wrote: post #188
chepurko wrote: post #184

Nothing in banking that is good and pleasant to use for clients ever lasts indefinitely. This is a business that can only survive on making customers’ lives miserable. I’ve been a Simple client for some time after closing PNC. It’s always been just “out of the way” and has never caused problems or cost me money unfairly. Which is why I’ve been waiting for them to either be acquired by a bigger, horrible bank or go un…

You should look into a local credit union.

Sadly my local credit union's app is awful, so is their website.

Re: Simple Bank Is Closing

#564

Post by cactus2093 »

BeetleB wrote: post #351
cactus2093 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think so, but I leave it off to try and start from a clean slate and save a the leftover instead if possible. But you can also change the dates of charges, so you can move stuff to next month or the previous month if there was room left over which I find convenient for spreading out big purchases.

Having rollover is a defining aspect of envelope budgeting. I put aside $150/mo for house repairs. I may have multiple repairs a year, or go almost 2 years without repairs. Rollover makes it easy to make sense of this madness. Multiply this by M for M other categories where spending is not regular. > But you can also change the dates of charges, so you can move stuff to next month or the previous month if there was r…

Geez people are really religious about this stuff. I don't get why I got downvoted just trying to answer someone's questions about features in a software product and explaining how I use them.

If this is what works for you then great. You've convinced me that home/car repairs in particular should rollover, I'm going to start doing that in my budget. All I was saying is that by default I don't want things like food or shopping budgets to roll over, since I don't want to spend money I don't need to just because it was in the budget. It's just what works for me.

Re: Simple Bank Is Closing

#565

Post by ska »

BeetleB wrote: post #463
ska wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gnucash allows split transactions, so your case is not a problem. So your check of $100 out of your checking account gets split into 3 different places, e.g. expense accounts. Your actual representation of chequing accounts should really represent the bank account,so you shouldn't do what you describe (that lead to a wrong balance), your actual budgeting is done elsewhere. If you weren't doing envelope budgeting, you…

> Gnucash allows split transactions, so your case is not a problem. So your check of $100 out of your checking account gets split into 3 different places, e.g. expense accounts. I'm aware of that, which is what I meant: If you do it this way, then you can't do envelope budgeting using subaccounts the way the original commenter said (and I agree with you that you should not do it this way). Both the methods you propos…

> Arguably, this goes against envelope budgeting.

Sort of. At least it would give you a monthly total of everything and a roll up of everything, but doesn't handle carry over cleanly. I was suggesting it as a way that works for lots of people but fair enough if it doesn't' fit close enough.

> Your second approach is closer, but it's a fair amount of work (or perhaps I misunderstood it)

It would look like this: Your salary comes in, and instead of matching that transaction to "income" you would split it against a bunch of "envelope" accounts, each however much you want per check. If you use liability accounts (e.g. like an accounts payable account) for this they will count "backwards". This is exactly analogous to envelopes, except that nothing (other than you) stops you from going negative. You can move funds between them whenever you want.

Then when you spent your $100 check you would split that transaction also, and apply the 60/30/10 each to its own account. These carry over of course, so if you don't spend it all this month you'll have extra next month, etc.

Re: Simple Bank Is Closing

#566

Post by sorbits »

cookiengineer wrote: post #496
mtzet wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What additional benifit does moving money around provide? From my perspective, there is not much difference between money moving around in the banking system vs moving around on your budget sheet, except the banking system might charge overdraft fees if the accounts are mismanaged. Based on that reasoning I've taken the approach to only have as many bank accounts as I need to utilize their services, and to interact w…

Counter-question: Does your operating system have all its files directly placed in "/"? Why not? Human nature of thinking needs a context, therefore it makes sense to provide folders or categories to get an architectural structure into a huge amount of data that needs to be processed. Additionally, if you need to manage a business account; having multiple accounts to balance the differences and to trace money expense…

> Does your operating system have all its files directly placed in "/"?

The various directories all share the same disk storage. I would argue that creating multiple accounts in your bank is akin to creating multiple disk volumes.

If one volume runs out of storage, you have to resize it, and requires decreasing the size of another volume.

Just like if one bank account runs out of money, you have to move money from another account.

Though I am unfamiliar with the products mentioned, so perhaps these are virtual accounts that all draw on the same underlying “physical” account, and thus can have a negative balance without incurring overdraft fees.

In which case this would basically be a (simple) accounting app provided by your bank.

I could certainly see some value in simplified accounting added to a banking app, if however you are after “proper” view of your finances, a real double entry accounting system should be used, where you would be able to also track assets outside of the bank (like cash on hand), liabilities (debt), etc.

Personally though I do see value in having a secondary (bank) account for fixed expenses, but that is only because I am too lazy to do “real” accounting, so having this separate account makes it easy to view a history of all fixed expenses (for next year’s budget).

Re: Simple Bank Is Closing

#567

Post by SamBam »

drusepth wrote: post #476
SamBam wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have a separate account for your rent, for your utilities, for your insurance, etc? If these are all roughly fixed costs, I have trouble understanding what you're gaining from this rather than having them all in one account, except additional headaches.

Automatically filling those envelopes (setting aside that money) prevents you from accidentally spending that money and getting yourself in a bind when it comes due. It's just a digital version of physical envelopes, which people also use to make sure they don't overspend. If you look in your spending account and you have $80 left for the month, you're gonna budget around that, buy cheaper meals, hold off on purchase…

Sure, but you could have a single account called "bills."

What I'm struggling with is why anyone would want accounts called "Rent", "Utilities", "Insurance", etc.

Re: Simple Bank Is Closing

#568

Post by alach11 »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #529
simple20200107 wrote: post #407

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this isn't crass, but many people 1) set up automatic billpay and then 2) get out of living paycheck-to-paycheck. That combination along with some financial restraint is enough to skip complicated budgeting systems.

Let’s say your phone breaks. Can you afford to buy a replacement today? Where will that money come from? Or you’re out somewhere and see something you want, say an Aeron chair for $150, a great deal. Can you afford to get it? Safe-to-spend is how we had relied on knowing that we could buy something and all of our necessities would already be covered.

I can see how that would be a useful system. My approach/mindset is totally different. Instead I maintain a 1 year emergency fund in my checking account. If something important breaks (e.g. phone), I know I can replace it. Every month or so, I look to make sure I’m not drawing down my account balance. If I am, I mentally calibrate to spend less money on takeout, clothes, etc. If instead my balance is going up, I skim off excess money into an investment account.

Re: Simple Bank Is Closing

#569

Post by technobabble »

Damn; I finally joined Simple last year. Has anybody had experience with Varo Bank? That's the closest alternative I could find. What else do you all recommend? I've looked at Varo, Vio, HmBradley, and Discover.

Re: Simple Bank Is Closing

#570

Post by brmgb »

cookiengineer wrote: post #496
mtzet wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What additional benifit does moving money around provide? From my perspective, there is not much difference between money moving around in the banking system vs moving around on your budget sheet, except the banking system might charge overdraft fees if the accounts are mismanaged. Based on that reasoning I've taken the approach to only have as many bank accounts as I need to utilize their services, and to interact w…

Counter-question: Does your operating system have all its files directly placed in "/"? Why not? Human nature of thinking needs a context, therefore it makes sense to provide folders or categories to get an architectural structure into a huge amount of data that needs to be processed. Additionally, if you need to manage a business account; having multiple accounts to balance the differences and to trace money expense…

> Counter-question: Does your operating system have all its files directly placed in "/"? Why not?

That's not a counter question. A file system is an abstraction over the physical layout of your hard drives. An accounting system is an abstraction above your accounts.

In the same way, you don't need one hard drive per folder, you don't need a separate bank account per bookkeeping account.

My take away from the closure of Simple and some commenters laments is that personnal accounting still suck.

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