In some alternate future, WhatsApp’s founders never sold to Facebook and the world is enjoying the use of a popular secure encrypted messaging platform.
Poll: Switching from WhatsApp
561–570 of 972 posts
Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp
#562Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a reminder, Telegram groups are not encrypted at all, and 1:1 chats are not encrypted by default, so while WhatsApp might see your contacts, Telegram can see most of your messages.
As a reminder encrypted messages aren't easily searchable -- this is a simple trade off and not some dark pattern default. Many Telegram users are away of it's quirks and how it operates differently to other IMs. Any tool will do damage in the hands of a bad workman. A good way to infer Telegram is reliable is how many despotic tyrants and corrupt countries ban it.
Encrypted messages are searchable, it's just slower and has to happen on the client rather than the server.
Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp
#563Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, I don't know where parent is located, but here in Brazil they are pretty much right. Everybody has WhatsApp... it's assumed that if you have a phone you have WhatsApp. A lot of financial transactions are conducted by doing a bank transfer and then sending the receipt via WhatsApp. The schools send essential messages to parents via WhatsApp. During lockdowns, stores were taking delivery orders via WhatsApp. What…
I like to think the problem is that "the nerds" have failed the rest of the people. People used to listen to us about computer stuff. Then computers became usable without us. Then smartphones arrived. We gladly were relieved of our obligations, but also of our influence. It's too late to go back. People are already used to the trade-offs, convenience rules above all. People may be "sort of concerned" about privacy, b…
> It's too late to go back.
It's never too late. Spread the message and show people alternatives. I do.
Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp
#564The problem is not finding a nice alternative. The problem is that everybody's contacts are on Whatsapp. How do you make THEM switch?
You're absolutely right. Which is why any alternative we DO deem worth evangelizing should absolutely not have the same vendor lock-in problem as WhatsApp has. Which Signal and most of the alternatives listed do: they are single-service clients.
If we do manage to migrate some/any of our friends away from the embedded plethora of contacts they have on WhatsApp, I really hope it's towards something like Matrix, or similar, that doesn't have that same problem.
Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp
#565Earlier quoted context omitted.
As a reminder encrypted messages aren't easily searchable -- this is a simple trade off and not some dark pattern default. Many Telegram users are away of it's quirks and how it operates differently to other IMs. Any tool will do damage in the hands of a bad workman. A good way to infer Telegram is reliable is how many despotic tyrants and corrupt countries ban it.
Encrypted messages are searchable, it's just slower and has to happen on the client rather than the server.
>As a reminder encrypted messages aren't easily searchable
Pretty much what I said.
Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp
#566Where is the "Don't switch" option? Because as much as I hate that Facebook bought them, they're part of what I would call "critical social infrastructure." Asking to leave WhatsApp is like cancelling your contract with your ISP and going offline just because you don't like the company.
I guess the question is does switching piecemeal allow for some of the benefits of switching wholesale? Especially, can I restrict which parts of my address book (and other data) get shared with WhatsApp?
Then I could communicate with people who are on another platform using that platform but keep using WhatsApp for people who haven't moved over. Hopefully over time there would be a complete migration.
Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp
#567I would say Signal, for now. Since last year when the European Commission urged its staff to switch from WhatsApp to Signal, I've noticed a lot more of my contacts becoming available on Signal.
I've been using Signal for some time; I preferred Wire, but gradually it became clear that Wire was only interested in corporate clients. One bonus compared to Signal is that you don't need to tie it to a phone number.
Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm referring to two things(although really just one) here - WhatsApp claims to store messages only as long as they are undelivered, after which they are purged from their servers. Even if they are retained, they are e2e encrypted. Telegram on the other hand, from what I can see, store all messages in plaintext or in an encrypted-at-rest form where they control and have access to the keys. It comes down to whether I…
> they are e2e encrypted Only if you trust Facebook with their proprietary software. And on Telegram you can easily export your history at any time and delete from the servers.
Covered your first point in my other comment here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25670543. Not copy-pasting because I don't want to come off as spammy.
Isn't MTProto proprietary as well?
Also, the option to delete on a periodic basis is not an alternative to not having things stored in the first place. That said, there is no way you can verify that copies are not retained on the servers in either case (WhatsApp or Telegram) so there's not much to argue there.
Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp
#569Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Critical social infrastructure At least for the UK, this is not at all the case. It’s perfectly feasible to socialise and do business without going anywhere near WhatsApp.
I live in the UK and this is absolutely 100% not true, you cannot function in society here without WhatsApp. In Australia the same is true for Facebook. In every country there's something, and almost all of them outside China are owned by Facebook.
I find this incredible to hear. I know many people who live very sociable lives who don’t have WhatsApp or Facebook. And these are not techno privacy geeks but regular people across different age groups.
I have to strongly disagree based on personal evidence that ‘you cannot function socially in society without WhatsApp’.
Re: Poll: Switching from WhatsApp
#570I love Matrix/Element, but for the people around me? Signal.