USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment • Hacker News Board

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#561

Post by jkaplowitz » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:01 AM UTC

rlt wrote: post #528

arcticbull wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you take an absolutist, principled or binary view, then most imprisonment is a torture of some sort. It causes severe psychological distress. That's what a prison is. The differences are in the nuance, and you might call those subjective. That's what prison in America is, but that's not what prison either has to be, or is everywhere else in the world. If your goal is to torture people, America's system is very e…

You’re comparing Norway’s 2 year recidivism rate with the US’s 5 year rate. The US’s 2 year rate is 29%.

Even if those are the correct numbers to compare (which the other reply to you is questioning), the US number is 45% higher than Norway's which is still quite significant. Using the 36% rate from the other reply to you, the US rate is instead 80% higher than Norway's.

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#562

Post by a0-prw » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:24 AM UTC

Talanes wrote: post #555

tsimionescu wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not that hard to draw it: 'I am satisfied that this man is the one who killed my dog'. Whether you are convinced that this is the man, or whether you are pleased that this particular man killed your dog are clearly different senses.

But would you not be pleased to be certain who killed your dog? It's not a 1:1 concept mapping, but the conceptual space is close enough that the semantic drift of "satisfied" is completely understandable.

I am satisfied that I am satisfied that this is the man who killed my dog ;)

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#563

Post by disown » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:45 AM UTC

young_unixer wrote: post #397

If there's anything to learn from Assange and Snowden: 1. Our western "liberal" democracies stop being liberal when the government gets angry at you at a personal level. 2. With enough propaganda, you can make people believe anything, even that Snowden is a "traitor" to the US. 3. Politically vociferous people (the mob) don't give a shit about you unless you're instrumental to support the cause du jour

One of the most interesting aspects of the assange saga is how journalists and mainstream media treated him throughout the years.

When he exposed Bush, the media and journalists celebrated him as a hero. I believe he was even given some awards. When he exposed Hillary, the media and journalists attacked him. Journalism is political activism at its core.

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#564

Post by anothernewdude » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 5:59 AM UTC

young_unixer wrote: post #397

If there's anything to learn from Assange and Snowden: 1. Our western "liberal" democracies stop being liberal when the government gets angry at you at a personal level. 2. With enough propaganda, you can make people believe anything, even that Snowden is a "traitor" to the US. 3. Politically vociferous people (the mob) don't give a shit about you unless you're instrumental to support the cause du jour

Pretty sure Snowden dumped every single thing he could get his hands on. That pretty much makes him a traitor.

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#565

Post by anothernewdude » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:00 AM UTC

disown wrote: post #563

young_unixer wrote: post #397

If there's anything to learn from Assange and Snowden: 1. Our western "liberal" democracies stop being liberal when the government gets angry at you at a personal level. 2. With enough propaganda, you can make people believe anything, even that Snowden is a "traitor" to the US. 3. Politically vociferous people (the mob) don't give a shit about you unless you're instrumental to support the cause du jour

One of the most interesting aspects of the assange saga is how journalists and mainstream media treated him throughout the years. When he exposed Bush, the media and journalists celebrated him as a hero. I believe he was even given some awards. When he exposed Hillary, the media and journalists attacked him. Journalism is political activism at its core.

He's been a piece of shit for decades

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#566

Post by anothernewdude » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:01 AM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #294

baud147258 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you really calling what Assange did "investigative journalism"?

Funny how everyone's opinion about Assange changed after 2016.

Funny how hard this narrative of people liking him before 2016 is being pushed.

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#567

Post by Dylan16807 » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 6:52 AM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #542

arcticbull wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you take an absolutist, principled or binary view, then most imprisonment is a torture of some sort. It causes severe psychological distress. That's what a prison is. The differences are in the nuance, and you might call those subjective. That's what prison in America is, but that's not what prison either has to be, or is everywhere else in the world. If your goal is to torture people, America's system is very e…

>>Recidivism in the US is 55% after 5 years, as compared to Norway's 20%. I'm no defender of the US prison system, but why compare the US to Norway, a country with: * a population of 5 million Norwegians, the descendants of whom actually rank very high in socioeconomic indicators in the US * one of the highest per capita GDPs in the world, thanks in large part to being one of the highest per capita oil exporters in t…

> a population of 5 million Norwegians, the descendants of whom actually rank very high in socioeconomic indicators in the US

Why does this matter?

> one of the highest per capita GDPs in the world, thanks in large part to being one of the highest per capita oil exporters in the world for decades

Their GDP per capita is almost identical to the US. (And the US has tons of oil too for what it's worth.)

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#568

Post by joshuamorton » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 7:03 AM UTC

AsyncAwait wrote: post #486

joshuamorton wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many of the names you'd want to leave up would be of smaller generals whom you may not be familiar with Investigative journalism is a difficult profession. Yet people manage. Throwing your hands up is a disservice to the profession. Calling someone who does so a journalist is a disservice to actual investigative journalists.

I did address this above but you ignored it.

You didn't. Assange found that it was difficult to be a real journalist. Instead of attempting to be responsible and do the investigative work required to figure out names that might be worth publishing, he threw up his hands and published them all

That's not investigative journalism. It's much closer to muckraking.

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#569

Post by mdoms » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 7:17 AM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #542

arcticbull wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you take an absolutist, principled or binary view, then most imprisonment is a torture of some sort. It causes severe psychological distress. That's what a prison is. The differences are in the nuance, and you might call those subjective. That's what prison in America is, but that's not what prison either has to be, or is everywhere else in the world. If your goal is to torture people, America's system is very e…

>>Recidivism in the US is 55% after 5 years, as compared to Norway's 20%. I'm no defender of the US prison system, but why compare the US to Norway, a country with: * a population of 5 million Norwegians, the descendants of whom actually rank very high in socioeconomic indicators in the US * one of the highest per capita GDPs in the world, thanks in large part to being one of the highest per capita oil exporters in t…

Are you really suggesting that a country full of white people is a priori superior to a diverse country? Do you realise how insanely racist that is? Can you back up your assertion that Norway's good record on recidivism is because of all the whites?

Re: USA vs. Julian Assange Judgment

#570

Post by Closi » Tue, Jan 05, 2021, 7:46 AM UTC

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #399

Closi wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't get too downhearted by the downvotes. I get the feeling people in this thread are getting mixed up between the difference of what people think is right or should be right and what the courts and laws say . I think Assange was a hero. At the same time, the claim that he tried to help crack a US military hash to assist with extracting files does sound pretty illegal on the face of it, despite its good intentions…

The statement is factually false, the reason we have judges is to consider individual circumstances and to make the tradeoffs between conflicting rights and laws. Cutting a person open without their consent could be murder or a lifesaving surgery depending on context. Breaking and entering is justified if you did it to save a child out of a burning building, breaking someone's bones is OK if it happens during CPR (va…

> The statement is factually false, the reason we have judges is to consider individual circumstances and to make the tradeoffs between conflicting rights and laws.

Not really, we have judges at the level of the magistrates to apply laws based on the precedents set in higher courts, not based on their own feelings of what the law should be.

There are legal tests that need to be applied - in your example about murder and surgery the definition of murder requires intent. As we know from cases like Shipman, a surgery can be murder, but it’s not for the judge to decide that arbitrarily, it’s for a judge to apply case law.

A district judge is not a one person jury!