‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#561

Post by 0xy » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 12:22 PM UTC

joshuamorton wrote: post #510

0xy wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you say that 11 employees of a single race reveal a "extensive pattern" of racism then? This seems to imply other POCs don't matter.

Because an extensive pattern of racism against Black employees is still an extensive pattern of racism. Being an exceptional employer to Asian or White or Middle Eastern employees does not excuse an extensive pattern of racism against Black employees, and vice versa. Like, I'm not sure how to clarify this further. Being racist against only a specific race or races is very much still racism (sort of by the definition,…

I don't think it's extensive because of the very low sample size, the fact we don't know about each instance and none of it has been corroborated.

I'm also uneasy about letting black people speak for other POCs on this issue. In my experience, racists tend to be racist towards multiple or all other races rather than a single one -- hence why you dismissing other POCs views on it doesn't make sense to me.

Less than 1% is not "extensive" by anyone's metric, either.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#562

Post by rendall » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 12:31 PM UTC

xenadu02 wrote: post #160

RestlessMind wrote: post #33

From Coinbase's preemptive rebuttal[1]: "we hired an external consultant in August of this year who specializes in data science and diversity and inclusion to cull through all of our historic data related to diversity ... and conduct a high volume of interviews with employees representing all background, functions, and tenures to understand the employee experience. The independent investigation concluded that there w…

If you've never done this sort of thing before: there's a huge market for these "external consultants". Their unstated job (and reputations) are as whitewashing firms. You hire them to ensure there is "no evidence" of anything done wrong. The primary purpose is to create a credible defense in lawsuits but PR purposes are also common. Firms that find problems suddenly see their business dry up because most companies d…

> If you've never done this sort of thing before: there's a huge market for these "external consultants". Their unstated job (and reputations) are as whitewashing firms.

There are consultancies whose reputations depend on reporting only unvarnished truth to their clients. That way the client can reliably handle and eliminate actual discrimination, and defend themselves against false claims. I'm not sure that a whitewashing firm would be as valuable as all that.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#563

Post by ausbah » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:18 PM UTC

bra-ket wrote: post #403

nilkn wrote: post #338

[Thank you for all your advice -- it's greatly appreciated. I've edited this post since it included a few personal details that I don't want permanently attached to my account on here. I sincerely apologize for the inconvenience.]

the article is from an extremely biased source, done in the midst of 'social justice' trend running out of steam, I'd just ignore it. Think long term.

people have been saying that about "SJWs" for >5 years now, maybe there's more to it then "it's just trendy"

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#564

Post by ausbah » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 1:30 PM UTC

camdenlock wrote: post #376

ausbah wrote: post #260

frankly its a little surprising to me how quickly some people in this comment section are to instantly dismiss the experiences of the people in this article yes the truth is shades of gray that article doesn't really give any answers to, but the unwillingness of others in these comments to even consider the possibility of some racism, discrimination, etc. experienced by others is just disheartening

The fault here lies with our society granting far too much power to people claiming victimhood. Being a victim is now an actively sought-after position because of the rewards it yields. We’ve completely perverted the incentives. So now, in order to protect ourselves against bad faith actors, we have to be extremely skeptical of victimhood claims. I agree, it is sad.

I think that view of victimhood is a very toxic view to hold. Of course innocent until proven guilty is a tenant to uphold, but extreme skepticism to the stories of real victims are why things like sexual assault cases are so under reported. a climate of such extreme disbelief painted by whatever few "bad apples" you may have witnessed tosses out the whole bushel

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#565

Post by acdha » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:03 PM UTC

vmception wrote: post #59

RestlessMind wrote: post #33

From Coinbase's preemptive rebuttal[1]: "we hired an external consultant in August of this year who specializes in data science and diversity and inclusion to cull through all of our historic data related to diversity ... and conduct a high volume of interviews with employees representing all background, functions, and tenures to understand the employee experience. The independent investigation concluded that there w…

"Proving innocence" is as tone deaf as their autistic CEO (who in the article is quoted himself as saying his behavior is because he's on the spectrum.) Brian Armstrong shut himself in because he doesn't want to deal with it. He doesn't know how to deal with it. All of Coinbase's actions are guided by the consequences, for example, they never needed to address their flash crash because they just needed to placate cus…

The people I know who are or have children on the spectrum would take issue with your opening sentence. Armstrong might find that a convenient excuse but it shouldn’t erase all of the effort most people put into being considerate.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#566

Post by caffeine » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

RestlessMind wrote: post #33

From Coinbase's preemptive rebuttal[1]: "we hired an external consultant in August of this year who specializes in data science and diversity and inclusion to cull through all of our historic data related to diversity ... and conduct a high volume of interviews with employees representing all background, functions, and tenures to understand the employee experience. The independent investigation concluded that there w…

It's important that they investigate what is alleged, and fix whatever wrongdoing they find.

If any individual was treated unfairly, that individual can sue under discrimination law, for a private apology and settlement.

But beyond that, it's also important that there be NO public apology or acceptance of the idea that refusing to espouse activist politics makes a company intolerant.

I think it's admirable Coinbase is taking a stand to keep activism out of the workplace.

Treating people fairly is required; tolerating campaigning in a private enterprise is not.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#567

Post by smoovb » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:17 PM UTC

slg wrote: post #5

This is in the wake of Coinbase decision to be a "mission focused company" and prevent their employees from speaking out about political issues at the workplace. It shows the dangers of being apolitical when saying "Blank employees should feel safe and welcome at their job" is apparently still a political statement.

> As many tech leaders publicly voiced support for Black Lives Matter protests, Black employees at Coinbase said on the Slack messaging platform that they were hurt by the silence of Mr. Armstrong and other executives about the matter.

Also seems like lack of making a statement is now a workplace risk according to the tone of the article.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#568

Post by eli » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:25 PM UTC

CryptoPunk wrote: post #458

username90 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cynical view is that you can either kick out your racists or those who complains about racists. And given how "diverse" tech is I wouldn't be surprised if the company would have a bigger problem if the racists left instead of the black people.

Tech is incredibly diverse.. The racial representation in tech is roughly proportional to the racial representation in Computer Science. i.e. it's not racism that is keeping black Americans out of tech, and suggesting otherwise with zero evidence beyond the observed racial disparity is extremely irresponsible.

It’s not. It isn’t. And why do you think the racial diversity in Comp Sci doesn’t match that of America? Or even that of the general college population?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#569

Post by acdha » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:35 PM UTC

not_a_moth wrote: post #461

RestlessMind wrote: post #33

From Coinbase's preemptive rebuttal[1]: "we hired an external consultant in August of this year who specializes in data science and diversity and inclusion to cull through all of our historic data related to diversity ... and conduct a high volume of interviews with employees representing all background, functions, and tenures to understand the employee experience. The independent investigation concluded that there w…

> What else can they do if they are really innocent? They can choose to ignore the NYT, since during the trump years it's been laid bare that they're a political publication.

This is the same NYT which is widely agreed to have helped elect Trump by aggressively covering a number of stories about Clinton, including an entire series based on the Clinton Cash book written by right-wing activists? Or is your objection that their reporting isn’t politicized in a way which supports your preferred outcome?

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#570

Post by NelsonMinar » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

bra-ket wrote: post #421

sonotathrowaway wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was treated as a disaster - they labeled the leavers as “political” and announced they instituted policies to prevent future “political” employees.

It's a private company, they can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't violate the law. And if there is a legal case against them the accuser has the burden of proof and due process. All I see from this article is a bunch of hearsay & rumors. It looks like a smear campaign to get some quick 'reparations' by riding a popular trend. We have this thing in the US called presumption of innocence, but apparently in c…

Libel and slander, both? Does your legal consultancy understand the difference between the two? Does it understand how those laws apply to newspapers in America?