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Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

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Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I see it, the problem with social media is that you surround yourself with like-minded people, which diminishes your tolerance to different views. People become self righteous and can't take criticism lightly. Compare this to how things were 15 years ago, or how they are in here, where everyone and their dog can challenge your opinion. You become more open minded long term, and can handle criticism in a more…

Except for the people who simply downvote and never explain their position. Plenty of them on here.

It's so interesting...there is this well known phenomenon where ~everyone has at least some bias the vast majority of the time, and in a forum thread where this phenomenon is the specific topic of discussion (say, a psychology paper discussing subconscious bias, and the associated psychological/neurological phenomena that enable it), any significant disagreement (including whether each one of us suffers from it) with this general notion is typically very rare.

But then switch over to a different thread where the topic of discussion is not some abstract idea like this, but rather an object level idea, say just for example a news story about conservative leaning people switching to a new social media platform to escape what they consider to be censorship, and something very curious occurs. In such threads, it is rare to encounter much talk about this phenomenon of psychological bias, and if it does come up, it is ~always only about the obvious bias suffered by those who are in the ~"general outgroup" of the forum community. In those cases, it is common to read numerous anecdotal observations of how people in the outgroup(s) are cognitively flawed in that they exhibit signs of "living in a bubble", and "just(!) won't listen to reason or consider ideas that are contrary to their worldview".

But then if one is to initiate a conversation with a person in one of these threads, and make a reference to the formerly non-controversial abstract idea (from the psychology thread) that ~all people suffer from some bias, at ~all times, it seems as if all knowledge of that phenomenon has somehow become cognitively inaccessible, that the individual has no knowledge whatsoever of the phenomenon.

Conversely, if one is to mention (say, in a different subthread in the same overall thread) this exact same phenomenon, except switching the object of reference away from the person (who was making a biased comment about their outgroup), over to members of the outgroup, this formerly inaccessible knowledge then becomes accessible once again.

Just for the sake of discussion (a mental experiment of sorts), let us imagine that there is some significant truth to this theory - let's (temporarily) assume(!) it to be True, at least to a significant degree. In this purely hypothetical scenario, might this phenomenon offer some logical explanation for the amount of extreme polarization of opinion that can be witnessed in the world, this "crisis of epistemology" we talk about where different tribes seem to live in completely different realities from each other, with each reality having significantly different sets of facts? To me, this seems not only reasonable, but quite consistent with objectively observable reality.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say that has more to do with the HN platform and its rules. Imho this is one thing that Slashdot does better: it let's you indicate the reason for your vote.

"I'd say that has more to do with the HN platform and its rules" Isn't that what we are discussing - platforms, their rules, and how that influences discussions? I'm just saying that there are plenty of people, in my experience on here, that would rather downvote an opposing opinion rather than start a discussion about it or answer a question about their own position. I routinely even get downvoted when asking why th…

Sorry, it looks like I misunderstood your original comment.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#563

In mid October I deleted almost all my tweets and likes (but Twitter being so shit they are still showing my likes except it’s not liked anymore lol) and have not been tweeting anything anymore. I found Twitter too toxic, it made me angry with people for no reason, so I deleted all my tweets and the app. No more notifications, no more “just checking Twitter quickly”. I now go to Twitter like once a day just to have a…

I am not a twitter user really. I check it maybe once every 2-3 weeks at most. But,.... It really depends on who you follow. I follow a few indie game dev friends and unfollow if one of them starts posting political stuff. My feed is mostly cool info about indie games in unity, unreal, pico-8, some graphics info. Very little bad stuff except for twitter itself with it inserting ads and trying to get me to follow "pop…

Strongly agree.

If you’re seeing Tweets that make you angry, unfollow that person. It’s really as simple as that.

If someone doesn’t have the willpower to avoid anger-inducing follows and tweets, deleting Twitter entirely is a good option. For everyone else, it’s really not difficult to curate your feed to be more reasonable.

Use the unfollow button liberally.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm honestly not sure how I feel about it. On one hand, I agree there is a positive to isolating the worst of social media off on a separate site. On the other hand, we're (maybe) just starting to see Facebook etc take some action on the worst elements of social media. This subverts that and makes it harder for Facebook to take further action in the future: shareholders will rightfully ask "what if you lose even more…

Inevitably these kinds of safe spaces for hate speech lead to hate crimes: https://www.wired.com/story/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting-ga... As long as the FBI are aware and can prevent these things, I suppose it's a nice honeypot, but if not then it's a literal weaponization of social media.

Note that echochambers leading to enough hate is a problem for both "left" and "right" aligned people. The violent actions of some people claiming to be Antifa being a recent example.

Echochambers based on hatred (of Trump supporters, "SJW"s or black people) just leads to awfulness, what's needed is controlled exposure to average members of the hated group to cool them down.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#565
post #527

In mid October I deleted almost all my tweets and likes (but Twitter being so shit they are still showing my likes except it’s not liked anymore lol) and have not been tweeting anything anymore. I found Twitter too toxic, it made me angry with people for no reason, so I deleted all my tweets and the app. No more notifications, no more “just checking Twitter quickly”. I now go to Twitter like once a day just to have a…

Learn to get the Twitter algorithm on your side! https://ibb.co/3BFQZhb Look at how many negative words are in this post of yours and hopefully see the irony of what you’re saying. Twitter isn’t magic, it can only give you what it thinks you want from what you give it!

Until censorship.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#566
post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"people are finding ways around it" was his main gripe with censorship.

It's not a gripe, it's a reality. I have no horse in this race other than the systemic outcome. Censorship (or official annotation, let's call it) was an attempt to curb the tribalism or put some controls on the spread of it; I'm certainly saying that it will not work. I can't imagine alternative solutions at this time, but we need to. It will likely be some sort of system we can't yet imagine, and it will likely nee…

It is concerning that you have "no horse" in a race over whether there should be American censorship.

It's as if the centrists have thrown away liberalism, which makes no sense to me given that liberal values are immensely popular among the public.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it just delays a bigger problem, kicks the can down the road. In 2-4 years' time, we'll have an even bigger festering cesspool of self-reinforced beliefs than ever before, and an more difficult time having rational discourse among our society about how to run it.

How do we get back from where we are now ? I have to admit, my social skills are lacking, my patience is low; and the problem just seems so vastly overwhelming that I can't imagine where to even begin.

Reinstitute the draft, or national service where every young kid has to spend a year fighting along side people they didn't know before hand, far from home. Or spend a year traveling the US doing worthwhile projects (fixing up broken jungle gyms in schools) again with people they didn't know.

It is a little bit less likely that you dislike heartland America when you spent a year working with Fred the Farmboy before you headed to Princeton. Fred could probably swap stories with a kid from the ghetto and may be they would come out with the understanding that they were not quite as different after all.

Of course, like any draft it would be a huge violation of the persons personal freedom.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#568
I am unsure whether the people claiming censorship here would register as "conservative" in any dictonary definition of the word. Note that where I grew up "conservative" is more in line with the policies of a centrist US-democrat. What the republicans campaigned for this election would be more in line with right wing fascist parties like NPD (basically a party for neo nazis in Germany, AFD, Marie Le Pen's right wing party in France etc).

I think actual US conservatives should draw a border at some point. Because there is nothing conservative about dreaming of returning to a past that never existed (it is usually a ethnic clean past, where everybody was happy and agreed what the good values were, nobody had to pay taxes, etc)

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#569
I tried to create a throwaway account and comment on a Reddit thread yesterday. It was denied due to lack of karma.

A few weeks ago I tried to create a throwaway on Reddit to create a new post but the post was immediately removed due to lack of karma.

Twitter now requires I provide a cell phone number to create an account. It throws up on me by suspending my account if a new account is unused for a few days. Requires I prove I’m not a bot to unsuspend it.

Facebook basically requires that I provide a birth certificate to sign up.

If you want to spread misinformation you basically need to be on an alternative platform but it’s also helpful for people like me who don’t want to give up my privacy to a social media company.

Re: Conservatives flock to Parler, claiming censorship on Facebook and Twitter

#570

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think Big Tech got every call right, but I really don't see how they please both sides here. Especially when one side, from the top down, considers everything other than sycophantic praise for its leader to be 'fake news', and the other side has some people opining that even reporting things the other side says without qualification is irresponsible journalism. If anything, I'd say hindsight makes some of thei…

I agree. I don't envy the position these platforms were put in. The platforms already had policies, but those did not foresee a time when the POTUS would act this way. When someone on the platform with the reach and power of POTUS says things that are objectively false (and potentially dangerous), how should those be handled? I'm not talking about dissenting opinions or a favorable way to look at a topic, but the equ…

> The platforms already had policies, but those did not foresee a time when the POTUS would act this way

Yes they did. In fact, in Twitter's case, they explictly altered their policies so that the failure to take action against this very same POTUS would no longer be a blatant failure to enforce it's generally-applicable policies.

Twitter has apparently had something of a change of heart about that blatant favoritism, and adopted completely new rules to reign in the monster their own rule change created on their platform, but it is not at all the case that the rules that were in place until recently were not crafted with this kind of Presidential action in mind; not only was it generally in minf, the rules were, in fact, created to license this kind of action for the benefit of this specific President, without allowing a level playing field for his opponents.

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