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EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

statewatch.org

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Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#561

Post by IanSanders »

MinusGix wrote: post #524
nix23 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We live in a dangerous world. No we don't, but that's what the Politicians try to implement in our brains.

We do. Even though the world has become safer and more prosperous it is still dangerous to our health and sanity. That doesn't mean we should avoid all risk. What you are more talking about is the Politicians overstate the chance of dangers and they do it on the most evocative of topics (ex: terrorism, CP, etc). A high danger we're in is from the potential for our governments to entrench their own powers and encourag…

Politicians are part of the danger. Judging from the history, greater danger than the dangers we are allegedly being saved from

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#562

Post by ben_w »

notreallytrue wrote: post #403
ben_w wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s plenty of stuff America does wrong, present tense and past, without needing to make hyperbolic comparisons to NK.

It's not hyperbolic How many countries NK invaded? How many coup d'état that established long and painful military dictatorships around the World it supported and/or financed? At least nobody calls NK the greatest democracy and country in the world or the land of the free...

On the other hand, how many styles of haircut are you legally allowed in the USA? Can you leave if you want to? Can you criticise the government without you and your family being shot?

Never mind Apples and Oranges, you’re comparing a rabid kitten (NK: you don’t want to be a cell inside it, but the animal is containable) with a healthy chimpanzee in the jungle you’re walking though (USA: violent and acts like it owns the place, so being one of its cells is safer than being a cell in many of the things around it).

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#563

Post by iso947 »

tom_mellior wrote: post #517
iso947 wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t directly elected, but the minister is from the government of each country, which is elected (at least as most understand the term) Parliament is directly elected

> They aren’t directly elected, but the minister is from the government of each country, which is elected (at least as most understand the term) Many ministers are initially elected to posts in their national parliament and then promoted into a government job. But this is not a real requirement, and many aren't. And even those that we elected, we elected for national jobs, not for the EU, and I do think that that mak…

Unless your country has joined the EU since your last election then you know you know you are electing a government head. Technically you tend to vote for a local representative who then elect the head of governemt but that’s not how people see it, just like they think they vote for Trump or Biden, but they actually vote for electors who could vote for anyone.

Generally we don’t have a directly elected ministers in Europe, just like the US don’t elect the Secretary of State, they are selected by the head of government. Unlike the US they tend to be elected people.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#564

Post by lki876 »

supportlocal4h wrote: post #347
nix23 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We live in a dangerous world. No we don't, but that's what the Politicians try to implement in our brains.

We do live in a dangerous world. Pretty much everybody loses their life somehow. It's amazing to me that so many of my peers survived childhood. It is pretty stupid to try to jump a car on your bicycle without a landing ramp. Or play catch with lit M80s. And those weren't our dumbest ideas. When I was a kid every 8-year-old pushed a lawn mower around once a week. And rode in the back of a pickup truck. Today I don't…

> Pretty much everybody loses their life somehow.

Everyone. Everyone dies. That includes you and me. The question is not if but how and what you do with the time you have.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#565

Post by vntok »

jalk wrote: post #549
vntok wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since its creation.

Citation please

What do you mean, "citation please"? Things are permitted unless forbidden by law, so it's up to you to quote a EU-binding law that forbids Tor. I can't prove a negative.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#566

Post by concordDance »

numpad0 wrote: post #486
kmonsen wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is trivial to create an app using encryption to send messages between two users. On Android you can sideload so no need for app store. You can also solve this with a webpage, this way it can be used on all devices. The point is that creating a secure channel few users use is pretty trivial unless you outlaw crypto libraries. These laws can only take down apps/websites in mainstream use.

This comment sounds like “there is no particular technical obstacles for any nation to start and complete an Apollo Program equivalent”

These algorithms already exist. They are stored on criminal harddrives and aren't going to magically vanish with new laws.

Making an Apollo program requires a bit more than ctrl+v.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#567

Post by will_pseudonym »

Retric wrote: post #221
dylan604 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Luckily, you can't 3D print an encryption key that would be useful in any way. Although, now I wish the guy from Lavabits had handed in his SSL cert as 3D printed letters and numbers like a puzzle.

3D printing is one of the more useful ways to securely backup up encryption key’s. Just ensure the only place they exist is inside an object and not only are they durable, but tamper resistant as someone can’t just photocopy the key.

Could you elaborate on that? I couldn't find anything from a few Google searches.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#568

Post by ben_w »

dheera wrote: post #472
ben_w wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So long as it looks normal for you, I suspect you’d be fine. If I started writing long paragraphs of aforementioned hereinafter notwithstanding including but not limited to senseless nonsense, I’d be really obvious — at least to a human, not sure if current AI would notice me yet.

Hmm, I think a better strategy might be embedding the ciphertext in the fur of cat pictures. Sending lots of cat pictures seems pretty normal for anyone. Might be possible to create a GAN that outputs a synthesized cat picture with a constraint of some ciphertext that can be decoded later. Or simple modulation might just work, if I can convince JPEG to not wreck it.

That is higher bandwidth, but for normal chat apps I would expect randomly applied compression in transit breaking things. Email could work though? And if you’re generating the JPEG or PNG yourself, you can put the cypher text in at whatever level you like, including highest entropy bits of the compressed data.

You’d have to be very careful to seem “normal”, as carelessly doing that can change the entropy in a detectable way even for the least significant bits — the least significant bits saved in something like JPEG is not the sensor noise, it’s the smallest stuff that humans pay attention to.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#569

Post by nix23 »

supportlocal4h wrote: post #417
nix23 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Pretty much everybody loses their life somehow. Yeah that's called life. >Today I don't let my kids ride in the back of pickup trucks, and I'm nervous about the lawn mower. That's because you already infected with fear. It's not your Children's fault that you don't trust them with a lawn mower..it's you and probably your society that is the problem. >Some dangers and some fears need to be met head on. Yes like wear…

Perhaps you missed my point. Lawn mowers didn't get more dangerous. The level of danger hasn't gotten worse in that one respect. The level of trust might have changed. The acceptance of risk might have changed. I don't think that keeping my kid away from the lawn mower in order to protect them makes their life overall better or even safer. Lawn mowers are dangerous. But that doesn't mean they should be banned. As you…

I really missed your point a bit.

But i watched a documentary about the US, where Children's under 12 are not allow to play outside without supervision, they get picket up by the police and the parents got big problems.

Here, they run around the hole day in the forests with Swiss or Scout-knifes and lighters and some sausages in the backpack. It's just terrible to think that your children's are safe because they sit hole day in their rooms and play games.

Re: EU Draft Council Declaration Against Encryption [pdf]

#570

Post by kebman »

anticensor wrote: post #518
feanaro wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but see Article 8 which is cited in your sibling comment. It already contains a right to privacy. But the term privacy is not very rigid. It can be taken and interpreted in various ways. It's certainly a good thing to mention it, but encryption needs to be mentioned explicitly, spelled out even. There cannot be any room for interpretation: citizens have a right to encrypt their communication, end-to-end with…

What about this tech-agnostic version: citizens have a right to deprive the unrelated citizens from accessing their communications using any means . Note that this includes E2E encryption, whisper, face-to-face private conversation, rubberhose encryption, noise insertion and steganography all in one.

Some idiot will cut off someones ears and then say to the police that, "it was to deprive him of accessing our communications by using any means. It says so in the law, Sir!"
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