Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps • Hacker News Board

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#561

Post by zimmund » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 1:52 PM UTC

tetha wrote: post #105

hesdeadjim wrote: post #53

Anyone complaining about this has never experienced the frustration of rural living when it comes to internet. This is absolutely amazing, and it will just get better. Even a reliable 10mbps would be a godsend in many places.

Reliable 10mbps is a stable full hd stream and 5ish mbps to spare. Easily one stable video call or two at lower quality. It'll be annoying if you want to download the latest AAA shooter coming in at dozens and dozens of gigabytes, sure. But you can do a lot at 10mbps as 1-2 people needing the uplink. That's really nice.

As someone who lives in a city where ~15 mbps is the max you can get... this is accurate. Streaming in 1080p with high quality may not work. Downloading a game over 80gb requires a couple of days. Oh, and I have just 1mbps upload, so syncing a video from my phone to Google Photos may take a couple of hours as well. ISPs need competition.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#562

Post by mint2 » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 2:21 PM UTC

cox has a monopoly in My area of California. The download speed of 50 mbs we have is fine but expensive. The upload speed between 2.5 and 3mbs is what’s painful.

I’d have to pay around $70 or more to get those starlink upload speeds with cox. I’d much rather pay starlink.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#563

Post by enkid » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 2:47 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #463

enkid wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how compression would work. Think about if they are adding a new level. The algorithm would have nothing to compare the files against except what is actually being sent. If the texture appears in each level, and each level comes in a separate update, there's no way for the algorithm to reference or incorporate the files that are already in your computer, so it has to compress it like it's a brand new file.…

You have this completely wrong. "there's no way"? It's extremely easy to make a patch file that references existing data. This is a problem that has been solved many times. And that's not relevant to initial install anyway, which can/should be a single download.

But thats not compression. That's downloading and running an executable that duplicates files.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#564

Post by dkdk8283 » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 3:11 PM UTC

I want to be a beta star link user - I am not in a totally rural area but in my area there are frequent natural disasters that take out power and comms.

Cell sites work until the generator runs out of fuel, typically 2 or 3 days.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#565

Post by shaklee3 » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 3:30 PM UTC

manquer wrote: post #513

shaklee3 wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What encoding technology is specific to wireless? (Hint: none)

You are thinking just software , Hardware tech is very different for wireless. The benefits from beam forming, MIMO or any of the advancements in 3G/4G/5G only benefit wireless. There has been similar technical improvements in wired which only benefit that medium, they keep cramming more signal on the same size cable every generation. Even in software at L3-7 the encoding tech is probably same of course, however prot…

I'm very aware of MIMO and the other physical layer technologies. But the original topic was about how wireless could somehow progress faster in these metrics than physical mediums. Mediums like fiber have progress much more in the last decade by adding more wavelengths and different modulation technologies compared to space technologies. SpaceX is only using MIMO in the sense that they have a phased array antenna, but that's not the same as your typical wireless router at home with multiple antennas. The other issue is space is severely power limited, so they are not going to get really high modulation schemes that fiber or cable have enjoyed (256+QAM) for many years.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#566

Post by shaklee3 » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 3:32 PM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #509

shaklee3 wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's revisit this. There's no point in arguing, but a single data point during a beta is clearly not what he was referring to.

Sure, we can revisit this later. But if we need to look at the numbers later, doesn't that mean you're conceding the point about it being "clearly not going to happen" and "patently false" that it will ever reach the promised number? Or do you think I'm delusional to say "maybe it will, maybe it won't" and you're just humoring me by offering to revisit?

Just to add some color to my comment: https://mobile.twitter.com/Megaconstellati/status/1294628802...

So SpaceX only has 2 PoP locations, and it happens to be the areas where they are doing trials. As soon as the ground system needs to backhaul the signal over long fiber distances, things change quite a bit.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#567

Post by ckdarby » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

freemint wrote: post #402

ckdarby wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't the satellites themselves cache content that are for world wide events like this? Edit: Even further, if they're launching 12000 of these couldn't that be a CDN network itself?

No, because HTTPS caching is not possible.

What I hear you saying is, they'd need to build out an actual CDN service that individual companies would have to sign up and use. This service would allow Starlink to be able to use their own certs themselves or have the owner's certificate.

My understanding is Cloudflare's service works this way. I believe this would be a good partnership between both companies.

I'm guessing the other approach is similar to Netflix's open connect. Where Netflix is given the option to run what they normally run on their open connect boxes but in a virtualized environment on the satellites themselves.

Now, I know that wouldn't seem all that practical if the service was seen as something anyone could sign up and buy because it isn't like these satellites are the same as EC2 instances and it isn't easy to just rack a new one but my gut feeling is that a very tiny portion of content is a substantial amount of bandwidth.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#568

Post by J0_k3r » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

hesdeadjim wrote: post #53

Anyone complaining about this has never experienced the frustration of rural living when it comes to internet. This is absolutely amazing, and it will just get better. Even a reliable 10mbps would be a godsend in many places.

this has been done with radio-based meshnets like the puget sound data ring for years, the government hasn't updated the legislation to allow encryption and commercial data on said meshnets, making them useless. we could already be providing free internet to millions if it weren't for the government and their dumb regulations.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#569

Post by smilliken » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

enkid wrote: post #563

Dylan16807 wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have this completely wrong. "there's no way"? It's extremely easy to make a patch file that references existing data. This is a problem that has been solved many times. And that's not relevant to initial install anyway, which can/should be a single download.

But thats not compression. That's downloading and running an executable that duplicates files.

What's your definition or compression? A .tar.gz will de-duplicate files that will be re-duplicated on decompression.

Re: Beta users of Starlink get downloads of 11 to 60 Mbps

#570

Post by nezgar » Sat, Aug 15, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

bdamm wrote: post #107

stingraycharles wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely! As someone who lived in a third world country for 2.5y (2014-2016), I had to resort to satellite internet for semi-reliable uplink. I have to admit that I’m not too familiar with the differences between Starlink and what’s already available, but what I do know is that I had to settle for 4/0.5mbit and was really happy with it. Reliability of the connection was much more important than the throughout.

Main advantage of Starlink over existing satellite is a (much) lower latency. Starlink constellation is flying by with a new satellite overhead every 10 minutes or less, and they're operating just above the atmosphere. Musk has claimed 20ms latency, which if true, would be absolutely a smash victory for rural Internet users everywhere.

It would be pretty nifty if the latency and jitter is consistent enough to be used for basic SIP/VoIP. Under 100ms in general would be hard to notice latency much different than a mobile phone. Starlink could go as far as rolling their own VoIP service with guaranteed QoS. I would also hope during beta testing they are developing intelligent queuing to deprioritize bulk transfers, and optimize bursty traffic where latency would be most apparent.