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George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

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Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#561

Post by ses1984 »

lazyjones wrote: post #543
ses1984 wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You could watch 100 videos of disgusting malpractices in restaurant kitchens and begin to think you should never eat in a restaurant again. What's the analogous conclusion from this to police brutality videos? You watch 100 and begin to think you should never talk to a cop again? Sure you can post up a bad conclusion to draw and then attack it. I'm pretty sure there's a name for this sort of thing.

> What's the analogous conclusion from this to police brutality videos? You watch 100 and begin to think you should never talk to a cop again? You can do better than this rhetoric question. The analogous conclusion would be that there is a systemic issue with the police and you'd prefer not to deal with them again, by defunding or dissolving the police force (seems to be a current wish by many). > Sure you can post u…

How many videos of police brutality do you need to watch before it's ok to conclude reform is needed?

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#562

Post by greedo »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #495
meheleventyone wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With use of force it doesn't matter if the techniques were ones we're used to it matters whether they are warranted by the situation. One isn't usually obliged to push crowds down the street. Using correct technique in the wrong situation is just as bad as using excessive force when using force is warranted.

But it's impossible to tell, from just a video of a crowd being pushed down the street, whether or not there's a good reason they need to be moved.

And most of these videos aren't from riots, but protests or curfew violations.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#563

Post by lazyjones »

hobs wrote: post #549
lazyjones wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The delusion is on your side if you believe pilots, crane operators or any other profession is as much under surveillance as the police and as active dealing with risky situations that could escalate. Are you just trying to fool yourself with these comparisons or everybody?

There's no delusion on his side - there's additionally the acknowledgement that police have a much higher burden for said situations - and the videos show that they are not qualified to manage them. "Oh well I guess its just really hard." Is NOT an answer.

> "Oh well I guess its just really hard." Is NOT an answer.

Why are you distorting my answer?

Look, I can rephrase it for you: it's also not surprising that there aren't 700 videos of scientists molesting women on arctic research stations.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#564

Post by hajile »

tartoran wrote: post #513
SamuelAdams wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why any footage of an incident used in court must include the entire interaction. Police body cam footage can be rejected as evidence if it does not start with the officer stepping out of his vehicle. This is why so many iPhone recordings from bystanders gets thrown out in trial. Are there instances where police abuse their power? Yes. Absolutely. But it doesn't help anyone when people are cherry picking inst…

Handcuffing a lifeless freshly shot body is more than enough. I’ve seen it over and over. Why is that a policy? Second, why shoot to kill and not to incapacitate? Shoot to kill is a policy. Why is that a policy? The police rule by fear. I’ve never broken the law and yet Im really affraid of cops in the US. I know I should not have a reason to but can’t help but be intimidated by their tactics, their orders, their dem…

It's obvious that you've never even shot a gun before. Pistols aren't particularly accurate in a shooting range even if you take lots of time to aim. With a moving target, adrenaline, and all the other factors in an actual situation, you're going to be lucky if all your shots even make contact with the target.

Where do you aim if you want to "shoot to incapacitate"?

No such place exists on the body. Even using small, low-powered rounds like a .22 rimfire short carry extreme risk of death no matter where you aim.

The answer is more simple. Don't pull out that gun unless what the person is doing warrants death. I don't know that attempting to apprehend a DUI is worth killing someone over. If you're responding to a domestic violence situation where someone's running around with a knife though, it's likely that a gun isn't a terrible consideration.

I think the real issue is getting in the competitive zone. "I'm not going to let this pero beat me" instead of considering if the cure is worse than the disease.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#565

Post by tlear »

DoingIsLearning wrote: post #338
pjc50 wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't see it as a mistake. In fact, there are plenty of commentators downthread who don't see it as a mistake either. Years of demonisation and propaganda has gone into supporting the belief that as soon as somebody steps out of line it's necessary to beat them back into line, or shoot them if they do not comply. It's no more a mistake than the millions of people in US prisons: it's policy .

As a complete outsider to US reality, to me looking in, it seems like there is a real issue of training regarding de-escalating techniques. US police forces seem to have a very short training which, as far as I understand is not centrally vetted by any federal organism? And considering the short training time it seems to be mostly focused on tactical and firearm training. Compare that with European forces and you see…

European forces do not police cities where 18 people get killed in a day(Chicago just set a new record).

Normal summer weekend you have at least couple dozen people shot(not by cops, so you never hear about them)

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#566

Post by lucio »

dragontamer wrote: post #375
dtech wrote: post #316

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, 1984 has a much higher cultural impact and awareness than ATLA. The show isn't that well known outside of current 20-30 year olds.

Frankly... among my generation of roughly 30 year olds, I'd expect Avatar the Last Airbender to have higher cultural impact than 1984 (which was written in 1949). Most of us were forced to read 1984 and didn't really enjoy it. ATLA however, is something that we organically grew up with through high-school / college and actually paid attention to. My group of friends would be aware of 1984 concepts... such as "Big Bro…

The phrase is "we've always been at war with Eastasia", and it is known because it resumes the core theme of the book. 1984 was written in 1948. There's a reason why it is in the school curricula, but sadly to be forced to read a book obviously creates a bad predisposition. Good books that philosophically shed light on human nature are timeless.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#567

Post by lioeters »

TeaDrunk wrote: post #188
throw7373 wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

100k is still within "riots" scale given the size of US. But if someone complains about police brutality in this case, they have zero experience, probably never left their city or read a book.

You may not be aware of this but in the education system of the United States, which is mandatory for all of our children, we are taught that the history of America is the culture of fighting against authoritarian regimes no matter their form. While the truth is complicated(in fact we’ve helped set up authoritarian regimes), it means that Americans generally view the protests of any authoritarian moves to be a patrio…

Having lived in the U.S. for a couple decades, I can confirm that a fundametal aspect of American history, culture, and education is about standing up for civil and individual rights. This has been true since the founding of the country, that numerous movements and protests were necessary for social progress. Americans are taught this from an early age, that we must fight for our rights.

It's also true that authoritarianism runs deep in American culture. Its military and police force have been complicit in shameful crimes against humanity around the world and within the country.

The challenge is that this situation (and the corruption that enables it) has been systematicaly organized and developed over (at least) the past century, and is part of the reason for its wealth and privilege. Clearly, the overclass is not willing to give up its power, and will resort to the same old strategy of oppression and manipulation.

As sad as it is that protests against police brutality are met with even more brutality, it is a patriotic duty of Americans to right the wrongs, to express anger with the systemic issue of racism and violence against peaceful citizens, and to demand change.

As an American who grew up with the ideal of "America the beautiful", my hope is that the protests don't stop there. The illness runs all the way to the top, and the whole world is waiting for the U.S. to grow up and actually behave according to the principles that it claims.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#568

Post by sethammons »

deathcakes wrote: post #474
sethammons wrote: post #467

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you tell on your loved one, good friend, and/or favorite cousin if they attacked someone? What if you could rationalize what they did? What if you told on them and that meant turning your back on the rest of your family and them all shunning you, or hurting and harassing you? I think we need some massive overhauling of how accountability works in police situations and I think that will have to start with shit r…

Oh no, I fully agree with you - in a normal organisation that respects operating according to the burden of responsibility placed on it, reporting these things would be a duty. As things stand, it is seen as betrayal of the 'brotherhood' which is why it needs to be brought down.

We agree. I was pointing out how it is different than if you saw it at the office. The brotherhood term is very relevant. Not sure why I was downvoted.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#569

Post by surewhynat »

lazyjones wrote: post #517
kthejoker2 wrote: post #412

If there ever was a case of "don't comment unless you've RTFA" this it: people extrapolating their viewpoint on a list of 700 things from watching 1, 2, 3 ... At a minimum, watch 100 videos. I did last night, only took about an hour, it's easy to find some to nitpick, some which are ambiguous ... and plenty that are totally horrifying. If you can watch 100 videos in a row from Greg Doucette's list and say, "the milit…

This is a clear attempt to manipulate opinion, I don't know why HN leaves it up. You could watch 100 videos of disgusting malpractices in restaurant kitchens and begin to think you should never eat in a restaurant again. If after watching carefully select and cut videos on a Twitter propaganda account you believe the police has a systemic issue, you're falling for the same trap. It's the same way media manipulate you…

This is an outrageous comment. It makes no sense, you seem to think nothing should improve.. If you see a single food system causing disease over and over, like what happened with mad cow disease, we should stop it.

If you see a single restaurant chain use horrible ingredients for humans, trans fats, far too many preservatives, high fructose corn syrup, over and over, you should never eat there again. I've personally cut out mcdonalds, and the fast food garbage restaurants. It doesn't mean every restaurant is bad, it means some restaurant models are bad. I still eat shawarma, I still eat indian and thai, and my family still owns an italian restaurant where we also don't try to poison our customers with horrible ingredients.

If you're comparing police to restaurants, then let me ask you, then on a scale of Taco Bell to El Buli, where does the current american system police system lie on the scale? I'd argue it's more like at the dumpster outside of your local mcdonalds.

Re: George Floyd Protest – police brutality videos on Twitter

#570

Post by danShumway »

bufferoverflow wrote: post #352
commoner wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those figures are for fatal police shootings, not for all police shootings. Police shootings and police brutality do not necessarily result in death.

You keep avoiding the question. How many are unjustified?

You're looking at a giant list of videos that people think are unjustified. You can go through and weed out videos that you think don't belong there. You can even submit pull requests to more organized compilations to remove unsubstantiated claims.

Your use of "unjustified" is entirely subjective. I don't know what your specific threshold is for justified violence against peaceful protestors, and it's a waste of time to try and guess what that threshold is. It's a waste of time for us to filter the data, only for you to then point out two videos you disagree with and ask everyone to repeat the same work over and over again.

All of the raw data is available to you in a list format. If you think there are errors, then fork the repo, file a pull request, or create an issue. Make your own list that demonstrates your point.

https://github.com/2020PB/police-brutality/issues

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