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Terminating Service for 8Chan

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Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#561

Post by avarun »

topologistics wrote: post #367
tenpies wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I actually ended up having these on reddit I am actually quite surprised how complicit the media is in not reporting what goes on Reddit. It's the one place on the "mainstream" internet I run into where you can see calls for political assassinations in default subs, sub-reddits devoted to theft, ethno-nationalism, terrorism, and all sorts of content that makes 4chan seem tame in comparison. Then there is the huge c…

Reddit is an independent subsidiary of Condé Nast's parent company, Advance Publications. They are a large part of what is commonly referred to as "the media." Just sayin.

Conde Nast sold the company back to the founders years ago. Reddit is now once again a VC-backed "startup".

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#562

Post by Lazare »

mLuby wrote: post #539
blacklight86 wrote: post #525

What kind of free speech are we exactly advocating here? The freedom to spread cheap hate, fake news and bigotry against minorities? I'm sorry but moderating such offenses isn't a limitation to free speech. For the same reason why, if you start shouting nig or monkey to black people in a shopping mall, the police is likely to intervene and take you away - and I don't think that any sane person would argue that they'r…

I get the gut reaction toward moderation at the corporate level, but United States law already covers these situations: hate speech, criminal conspiracy, and murder. The issue is lack of law enforcement.

There is no law against hate speech, and any such law would be unconstitutional. Many attempts at passing such laws have been struck down.

It's an oddly pervasive delusion that hate speech is not protected by the first amendment.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#563

Post by cryptonector »

dangxiaopin wrote: post #557
cryptonector wrote: post #544

That a crazy person posts a screed somewhere then commits mass murder is not by itself sufficient reason to destroy the forum where they posted their screed. It's not remotely clear to me that 8chan glorified previous mass murders -- of course, I've not looked, but then, Cloudflare doesn't post any evidence of this either. But even 8chan they did, that's essentially what the media is doing every time they give wall-t…

According to Cloudflare's logic, ISPs should have stopped peering with Facebook after NZ shooter livestreamed there.

Perhaps only if commenters glorified it? I'm sure you can find people to do that on FB or anywhere else, and it may take time to moderate such commentary. But no one would deplatform FB or Twitter -- they're too big. This approach means we have a powerful dynamic in place to limit the reach of any social media that isn't already "too big to deplatform".

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#564

Post by cryptonector »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #558
cryptonector wrote: post #544

That a crazy person posts a screed somewhere then commits mass murder is not by itself sufficient reason to destroy the forum where they posted their screed. It's not remotely clear to me that 8chan glorified previous mass murders -- of course, I've not looked, but then, Cloudflare doesn't post any evidence of this either. But even 8chan they did, that's essentially what the media is doing every time they give wall-t…

Users on 8chan (and Kiwifarms and similar sites) very specifically rile up hatred, they are frighteningly good at radicalizing frustrated young men. They regularly praise previous mass murderers and goad others into doing the same.

I've no idea. I've never visited the site. Elsewhere in this thread it is said that they clearly jest -- I wouldn't jest about such things, but without seeing the content in question I can't say how questionable it is.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#565

Post by kelnos »

madamelic wrote: post #110
ALittleLight wrote: post #91

When I was younger I thought I was a few speech absolutist. Then I went to where was free speech was absolute and saw what was discussed. Now I favor moderation.

>When I was younger I thought I was a few speech absolutist. Then I went to where was free speech was absolute and saw what was discussed. Now I favor moderation. How do you determine what speech is "good" and what speech is "bad"? I feel like there is no absolute way to determine this. (I am being genuine in asking, I want to know what caused this change and how you see "free speech") All speech is good in my opinio…

You're correct that there's no absolute way to determine what speech is good and bad. We can only muddle through, making value judgments. Some will be right, and some will be wrong, and hopefully we'll learn from the times we screw up.

I'd rather people have the courage to take a moral/ethical stance than to just not care about anything and ignore the negative impacts technology can have on society. If Cloudflare is wrong in this instance, or in any future instance, hopefully there will be enough backlash that they'll learn and walk it back. If they fail at learning, then we have to resort to government regulation, and hope that our governments are up to the task of doing the right thing.

At the end of the day, it's just people making decisions, all the way from the top, down to the bottom. We're all flawed and do the wrong thing sometimes, but my (perhaps naive) hope is that we're slowly converging on more right than wrong.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#568

Post by [deleted] »

cryptonector wrote: post #544

That a crazy person posts a screed somewhere then commits mass murder is not by itself sufficient reason to destroy the forum where they posted their screed. It's not remotely clear to me that 8chan glorified previous mass murders -- of course, I've not looked, but then, Cloudflare doesn't post any evidence of this either. But even 8chan they did, that's essentially what the media is doing every time they give wall-t…

[deleted]

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#569

Post by arrrg »

baybal2 wrote: post #547
blacklight86 wrote: post #525

What kind of free speech are we exactly advocating here? The freedom to spread cheap hate, fake news and bigotry against minorities? I'm sorry but moderating such offenses isn't a limitation to free speech. For the same reason why, if you start shouting nig or monkey to black people in a shopping mall, the police is likely to intervene and take you away - and I don't think that any sane person would argue that they'r…

Can you tell what country do you live in? I live in China, a textbook totalitarian state. What you say is awfully similar to what CPC puts as their justification of censorship. The prevailing narrative among the "dotcom" community in the West, and what you have said wrote is very similar to their position.

That is why context is important.

The dream of the perfect context free golden rule does not exist. We have to pay attention and make hard decisions. None of this is simple.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#570

Post by systemtest »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #558
cryptonector wrote: post #544

That a crazy person posts a screed somewhere then commits mass murder is not by itself sufficient reason to destroy the forum where they posted their screed. It's not remotely clear to me that 8chan glorified previous mass murders -- of course, I've not looked, but then, Cloudflare doesn't post any evidence of this either. But even 8chan they did, that's essentially what the media is doing every time they give wall-t…

Users on 8chan (and Kiwifarms and similar sites) very specifically rile up hatred, they are frighteningly good at radicalizing frustrated young men. They regularly praise previous mass murderers and goad others into doing the same.

So what you are saying is that 8chan has the same content as certain Facebook groups. Why not drop Facebook?
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