Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#561

Post by tomnipotent » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 5:20 PM UTC

crdoconnor wrote: post #536

irrational wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Do you believe that the raise of the minimum wage at Amazon was out of good nature? Does it matter what the rationale was? I know if I was an Amazon minimum wage employee I could care less what the rationale was. I'd just be thrilled to be getting a pay raise. Where I live the minimum wage is only $11.25/hour. Getting a bump to $15 will be a big deal for those people.

>Does it matter what the rationale was? If you're Amazon, yes, it matters a ridiculous amount. The last thing you'll want is for people to realize that the union drives actually worked . That would mean more union drives and more pay rises on the horizon. Can't have that! Count the number of mentions of the reason for their decision in their press releases: https://press.aboutamazon.com/news-releases/news-release-det…

So did it matter what Ford's motivation was when he introduced the 40 hour work week? He didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#562

Post by ttoinou » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 5:20 PM UTC

java_script wrote: post #546

ttoinou wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the first sentence. The rest of it is a personal attack, please read the guidelines and respect rules of places you make use of https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Thank you for the constructive feedback. I have some to offer as well. This is you: https://i.imgur.com/jPyEBOD.jpg

Very mature, thanks for passing by and trying to change my opinion

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#563

Post by baldfat » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 5:21 PM UTC

shawnz wrote: post #278

baldfat wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying your salary is based on keeping the working poor? OR are you saying you think corporations and their investors deserve a low wage workforce that the government will take care of with your tax dollars? I find no logical sense other then your mad that people can make money for WORKING. When people make $15 an hour they will need less government assistance. This will take away from corporate's profits, wh…

I don't think they are saying anything like that. I think they are saying that a minimum wage increase would bring the lowest earners closer to the higher earners, rather than causing inflation across the board. So that's a good thing if you care about wealth inequality.

I think inflation is just what people on the conservative economic side like to always throw out. Inflation is the new Bogeyman - https://www.bworldonline.com/inflation-become-bogeyman/

Edit: After submitting for 1 minute The number one weapon against doing anything to help the working poor is that it will cause inflation. It's a hollow baseless argument.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#564

Post by chc » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 5:22 PM UTC

mindcrime wrote: post #336

meko wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies don't really deserve praise, practically ever because their motives are ultimately guided by profits. They only act in the interest of revenue. Sometimes those interests align with the employees, but let's not pretend this isn't self preservation on amazon's behalf.

Companies don't really deserve praise, practically ever because their motives are ultimately guided by profits. That's not actually true.. it's a caricatured straw-man argument, usually employed by people who want to attack Capitalism in the general sense. Of course companies have to make a profit to survive; but not all companies ruthlessly optimize every single variable to squeeze out the last $0.0000001 of profit,…

That's odd. I usually see that argument employed the opposite way — to dismiss criticisms of companies by suggesting that there is no moral dimension to a corporation's actions, and thus it is unreasonable to ask a company to do anything for the good of society or criticize it for failing to do so, because a corporation's purpose is merely to seek profit.

I agree with you, though. The idea that companies have to be like zombies, mindlessly shambling toward revenue, is false. If a company acts that way, it was a choice on somebody's part, not an immutable law of nature. If somebody in charge decides they want it to act differently, they have that option too.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#565

Post by wjnc » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

IgorPartola wrote: post #277

wjnc wrote: post #237

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well in this respect: Amazon chooses to link the two discussions themselves. They could have easily made their communication less open to an easy attack by pledging $15 an hour while lobbying silently, or at least communicating that on another moment. They could have noble intentions with both moves. I'd even expect them to have noble intentions since $15 seems an unreasonable large increase from $7.25. Why link to t…

Wait, why is it bad that Amazon is lobbying for this? Would you say it was bad if, say, ACLU was lobbying for a $15 minimum wage? My guess is that from Amazon's point of view, they are winning political points by not just raising their own minimum wage to $15, they are also using their standing in the industry to increase quality of life for non-Amazon minimum wage workers. If they succeed, I am happy to grant them t…

I'm not arguing that it's bad to lobby for a higher minimum wage. Only that to communicate both the raising of your wages and the lobbying at the same time, you mix two messages for different audiences. Hence the sour replies, that mix private actions with public beliefs of a firm.

The argument that their relative competitive positions changes by first-moving on wages seems not in doubt? Obviously when the wages double for everyone the most capital intensive gain competitive power.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#566

Post by rc_bhg » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #287

kodablah wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I guess that's one way to put a positive spin on unemployment.

It's putting a positive spin on paying people a living wage. Unemployment goes up, support the unemployed with safety nets and raising taxes. The problem is not the cost; the money exists in the economic system, clearly. It's simply an allocation issue. But pessimists can keep carrying on with "the sky is falling" while progressive economic policies continue to march forward, bringing the US to parity with the living…

> The problem is not the cost; the money exists in the economic system, clearly. It's simply an allocation issue

Yeah I really agree with this statement a lot

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#567

Post by mfourcade » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 5:23 PM UTC

swebs wrote: post #17

>In addition, the company also pledges its public policy team will lobby for an increase to the federal minimum wage from $7.25 — it doesn’t identify a specific wage that it’s targeting, but instead says, “We believe $7.25 is too low. We would look to Congress to decide the parameters of a new, higher federal minimum wage.” I'm going to take a wild guess and assume it will be $15/hour. That way they'll get to look pr…

US ±100 years ago: "If we will not endure a king as a political power we should not endure a king over the production, transportation, and sale of any of the necessaries of life." ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_United_States_antit... )

Feels like AMZN is becoming a political power, a king of production, transporation and sale... Is it too big ?

Any risk Trump answers with a New Deal à la Roosevelt ?

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#568

Post by maym86 » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 5:24 PM UTC

crdoconnor wrote: post #36

allengeorge wrote: post #10

They must have automated enough, or shifted enough work to contractors that this is now materially not a big deal.

I wonder if anybody else remembers 2007 foxconn pledging to automate 90% of their factory workers out of a job when they started unionizing.

They always threaten bad results for the workers when people try to unionize, often baselessly. If they could automate the jobs away they'd have done it anyway.

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#569

Post by hannasanarion » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 5:25 PM UTC

briandear wrote: post #402

meko wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies don't really deserve praise, practically ever because their motives are ultimately guided by profits. They only act in the interest of revenue. Sometimes those interests align with the employees, but let's not pretend this isn't self preservation on amazon's behalf.

Employees are driven by their own self-interest, so we ought not praise their efforts either right? There is no such thing as altruism: everyone has their agenda.

So what you're saying is, Amazon's self-interest in making tons of money for its shareholders is just as valid as its workers' self-interest in not starving to death?

Re: Amazon raises minimum wage to $15 for all US employees

#570

Post by wjnc » Tue, Oct 02, 2018, 5:27 PM UTC

jdmichal wrote: post #352

WillPostForFood wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By lobbying for the $15 minimum wage they are working to make sure that their competitors don’t retain any competitive advantage on wages. So now the brick and mortar shop that is barely in business because of competition with Amazon is going to get hit with a big bump in wage costs. They either will raise prices, or go out of business, both scenarios benefit Amazon.

That's a nice story, but it's just that. Alternatively, all the minimum wage workers will have more expendable income. Some of that may be spent at those brick-and-mortar shops, and will offset the additional costs. Remember that the velocity of money makes it a non-zero-sum game. EDIT: Ends up that Wikipedia covers this nicely: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage_in_the_United_Sta... "The interconnection of p…

It's not really a story is it? Output is a function of capital, labour and productivity. Double cost of labour and those that get the most productivity out of capital gain competitiveness. Who is relatively capital intensive? Amazon. So it's a pretty factual story economics-wize.

There's no doubt labour is better of in the short run with double wages. I would not doubt the effects in the long-run but that's part belief. The market structure will change, less capital intensive firms will drop out. That might be brick and mortar stores (note: bricks are capital but bricks are not really productive in the sense meant above).