What if jobs are not the solution but the problem?

Post by JulianMorrison » Mon, Nov 28, 2016, 11:12 AM UTC

aidos wrote: post #190

JulianMorrison wrote: post #180

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I resent the idea that my surplus labour is anyone's but mine to spend. Certainly you could create infinite amounts of "paid" makework but in the end it amounts to keeping a system going for its own sake, and wasting people's potential by allocating them "dig a hole and fill it in" jobs when they could be being creative.

I think you've take the uncharitable view of an implication that everyone is forced to work to fill up hours. Realistically there are loads of things that could be done to make the world a better place. Equally there are lots of people out of work. If someone can provide the funds to marry those things together, it's a win win. But who pays? Maybe Apple could go all philanthropic and depart with all that cash they're…

Post by bluejekyll » Mon, Nov 28, 2016, 3:13 PM UTC

throwaway7312 wrote: post #558

cesarbs wrote: post #329

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> IMO anyone who is passionate about their work will have greater success and generally be more innovative. That is true, I don't dispute it. What I dislike is the shunning of those who want to do it just as their job. Also, passion comes in different forms. For example, I am "passionate" (as much as I hate the term) about delivering reliable, secure and well-documented products. Sometimes a project will be focused o…

I ran a project recently where we'd hoped to do everything in 30-hour workweeks, but it quickly became apparent we'd need 80-hour weeks to complete it for our deadline. We ended up working about 3 weeks straight in a full-on 80-hour-a-week sprint. Usually I hire for passionate people, and usually it isn't because we need 80-hour workweeks. Usually it's just because the output is often better, they notice more mistake…

Post by nico_h » Mon, Nov 28, 2016, 10:52 PM UTC

reflexive wrote: post #295

nico_h wrote: post #181

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Heck, even if you made that proposition to a fast food worker that he could do meaningful work instead of smelling like fried stuff all the time and always be worried about working enough hours for a crappy boss and no future, or to a janitor that he could help someone instead of cleaning pee all day, maybe they would do that instead. Maybe even to an office drone, who knows. Right now people work because otherwise t…

if you made that proposition to a fast food worker that he could do meaningful work instead of smelling like fried stuff all the time and always be worried about working enough hours for a crappy boss and no future, or to a janitor that he could help someone instead of cleaning pee all day, maybe they would do that instead Are you saying that making food for people is meaningless? That cleaning doesn't help anyone? H…

Post by nico_h » Mon, Nov 28, 2016, 11:13 PM UTC

WoodenChair wrote: post #289

nico_h wrote: post #181

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Heck, even if you made that proposition to a fast food worker that he could do meaningful work instead of smelling like fried stuff all the time and always be worried about working enough hours for a crappy boss and no future, or to a janitor that he could help someone instead of cleaning pee all day, maybe they would do that instead. Maybe even to an office drone, who knows. Right now people work because otherwise t…

> Heck, even if you made that proposition to a fast food worker that he could do meaningful work instead of smelling like fried stuff all the time and always be worried about working enough hours for a crappy boss and no future, or to a janitor that he could help someone instead of cleaning pee all day, maybe they would do that instead. Maybe even to an office drone, who knows. You imply that being a fast food worker…

Post by kLeeIsDead » Mon, Nov 28, 2016, 11:55 PM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #375

kLeeIsDead wrote: post #285

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I thought the call-center example was dumb too, but he got his point across. What you describe is the way I read it as well. That's why I don't think I'm going to pursue a career in software engineering despite doing it as a hobby since a young age. I think there'd be some irreversible damage to my brain if I used something I've liked and identified with for my whole life as a means to do something I hate. To me it s…

I dunno. I've done straight-up factory work, i.e. manual labor as well as IT. Maybe I just have a good company, but I'd much rather do this than ever go back to factory work, even if the pay were better in the factory job.