Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S. • Hacker News Board

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#561

Post by mhandley » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 9:54 AM UTC

zigzigzag wrote: post #468

nostrademons wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something I've been wondering about: We're seeing this pattern where the coasts of many countries are cosmopolitan and well-integrated into the world economy, but the interiors are very conservative and nationalistic. Scotland & London vs. Wales & the rest of Britain. The U.S. West Coast & Northeast vs. the Farm Belt, Rust Belt, and Mountain states. Croatia & Slovenia vs. the rest of Yugoslavia. The Baltic Republics…

London isn't on the coast. What you're looking at here is not coasts vs non-coasts even if American maps might make it look that way. It's cities vs everywhere else. It just so happens that in America most of the biggest/best known cities are on the coasts.

In Britain, at least, I'm not even sure it's cities vs everywhere else. The large cities of the Midlands and North (Birmingham, Manchester, Leeds, Newcastle) went for Brexit much more than anyone expected. It's more a case of new economy vs old economy. That's not really a surprise is it? People in places that benefit from globalization vote in favour of globalization; people in places that have seen manufacturing or rural jobs vanish in the face of globalization are reacting against these changes. In this light, both Brexit and Trump, which both promise quick fixes, are not really a surprise. Unfortunately there are no quick fixes - as technology increases, so must specialization. There's no going back - that ship has sailed.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#562

Post by plandis » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 9:54 AM UTC

I've never felt less American than I do right now. The country that voted for a man who has been recorded stating that he sexually assaults women is not a country in which I want to live.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#563

Post by salamisultan » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 9:54 AM UTC

einr wrote: post #538

The Baltic Republics vs. the rest of the USSR. Just FYI, since I assume you're not very familiar with these countries: this kind of lumping together the so-called "Baltic Republics" with the "USSR" is generally very offensive to Estonians, Lithuanians and Latvians, who have nothing to do ethnically or culturally with Russia and generally view the Soviet era as very dark times. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were invad…

Muh privelege...

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#564

Post by InclinedPlane » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 9:55 AM UTC

nopinsight wrote: post #144

Brexit and the Trump election share the same root causes: * Inequality within developed countries, leading to dissatisfaction among working-class voters. * Globalization benefits accrue largely to capital owners, leaving a lot of workers behind. Many blame immigration since it is the most visible cause. The blame is partly backed by human's xenophobic instincts. Ironically, Trump's tax plan will mostly benefit the ri…

Indeed. Globalization is not the enemy. Overall wealth and productivity have gone up, up, up in the last 40 years. The problem is that a disproportionate share of the returns from that growth have gone into the pockets of the rich. There's about a zillion reasons why that happened, but there are also many ways to tackle the problem and improve the situation.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#565

Post by lyschoening » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 9:55 AM UTC

smackay wrote: post #102

Jeez, everybody is all bent out of shape on this. The Republican establishment hate Trump nearly as much as they hate Clinton so with Republicans controlling The House and The Senate how much "damage" is President Trump going to be able to do. The really interesting part of all this was reading Scott Adams blog who proposed the idea that Trump is a master persuader (probably this is just a fancy name for populist). H…

For one Trump will give them at least one, more likely two even more Supreme Court Justices, so some of the most right-wing conservatives we've seen in the past half century will decide the law of the land for the next twenty to thirty years.

The Republicans will have control of all three branches of government for the next few years and there is a whole lot that they can do with that. As a foreigner, what worries me most is that American progress on climate change policy will be set back by another 15 to 20 years as Obama's progress will be erased and there is no progress to hope for until another Democrat is elected in four or eight years. Russia can also be expected to threaten Europe with more confidence; hopefully our defense spending will increase to pick up the slack.

The Democrats certainly brought this upon themselves. People say the primaries against Sanders were rigged, but really the problem wasn't that the DNC pushed Clinton. The problem was Clinton herself. Clinton soundly rejected Sanders' populist ideals when almost half of the party and a great number of independents supported them. All it took at that point were a few leaks and a letter from Comey to rip the blue collar worker's vote from her.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#566

Post by crottypeter » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 9:56 AM UTC

einr wrote: post #538

The Baltic Republics vs. the rest of the USSR. Just FYI, since I assume you're not very familiar with these countries: this kind of lumping together the so-called "Baltic Republics" with the "USSR" is generally very offensive to Estonians, Lithuanians and Latvians, who have nothing to do ethnically or culturally with Russia and generally view the Soviet era as very dark times. Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania were invad…

Isn't that the point of the parent post? The two regions are very different.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#567

Post by BjoernKW » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 9:56 AM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #327

thewarrior wrote: post #44

It is possible to view this as an isolated event or a trend. Coming on the heels of BREXIT this is a trend. The attempts at building an interconnected globalised world are beginning to fail. A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population. Whether it is…

Something I've been wondering about: We're seeing this pattern where the coasts of many countries are cosmopolitan and well-integrated into the world economy, but the interiors are very conservative and nationalistic. Scotland & London vs. Wales & the rest of Britain. The U.S. West Coast & Northeast vs. the Farm Belt, Rust Belt, and Mountain states. Croatia & Slovenia vs. the rest of Yugoslavia. The Baltic Republics…

City states and some sort of 'neo-medieval' organisation principle with lots of overlapping allegiances and identities.

There was an interesting article on this some time ago that broached some of these ideas:

https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22329850-600-end-of-n...

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#568

Post by return0 » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 9:58 AM UTC

thewarrior wrote: post #44

It is possible to view this as an isolated event or a trend. Coming on the heels of BREXIT this is a trend. The attempts at building an interconnected globalised world are beginning to fail. A bunch of elites decided to create their own trans-national utopia unchecked by borders and dismissed all criticism as racist or bigoted. The globalisation project has been rejected by a majority of the population. Whether it is…

I think it is more populism than far right.For example, in my country greece, under similar discontent, people voted the (supposed) "radical-left" party of Syriza.

The anti-globalization trend is very real though.

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#569

Post by curioussavage » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 9:58 AM UTC

estefan wrote: post #84

Artoemius wrote: post #25

Brexit, then this. Life on Earth is becoming unpredictable again. A bit scary, but fun. It was way too boring.

"Fun" in the "emboldens Russian aggression safe in the knowledge the US won't back up NATO" sense? I think this is a complete disaster for world peace. I genuinely wouldn't be surprised to see Europe involved in a major war with Russia in the next 2 years. If that happens China will seize the moment too. Also having someone who thinks climate change is a lie in the White House will affect everyone. He should ask the…

Ah yes, the return of the Russian boogeyman.

Agreements like NATO do not promote peace. It's easy to be too aggressive when you have big friends who you can drag into your fights.

As crappy as trump is IMO there is a little more hope for peace. Hillary is such a hawk conflict was all but guaranteed under her administration

Re: Donald Trump is the president-elect of the U.S.

#570

Post by PeterStuer » Wed, Nov 09, 2016, 9:59 AM UTC

I personally believe Clinton was almost uniquely qualified as the only democrat that could lose this election from Trump. The political establishment underestimates the underlying resentment. "The winners know that they’re winning but have been very slow to realize that the losers know that they’re losing and are enraged about the fact." The linked article, put in hash words but look beyond that, was written after the Brexit poll, but it is as relevant here: "Corrupt elites always try to persuade people to continue to submit to their dominance in exchange for protection from forces that are even worse. That’s their game. But at some point, they themselves, and their prevailing order, become so destructive, so deceitful, so toxic, that their victims are willing to gamble that the alternatives will not be worse, or at least, they decide to embrace the satisfaction of spitting in the faces of those who have displayed nothing but contempt and condescension for them.

"There is no single, unifying explanation for Brexit, Trumpism, or the growing extremism of various stripes throughout the West, but this sense of angry impotence — an inability to see any option other than smashing those responsible for their plight — is undoubtedly a major factor. As Bevins put it, supporters of Trump, Brexit, and other anti-establishment movements “are motivated not so much by whether they think the projects will actually work, but more by their desire to say FUCK YOU” to those they believe (with very good reason) have failed them"

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25/brexit-is-only-the-lates...