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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#561

Post by babuskov »

tinco wrote: post #275
wobbleblob wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've tried driving in the Netherlands, you know why so many people prefer to ride a bike instead. Well maintained, but narrow and extremely busy roads, densely packed with tiny vehicles. Wearing a helmet while cycling in the Dutch bike lanes is a bit like wearing a helmet while walking on the side walk. I used to only wear it while racing. Since I had a bad crash after being hit in the eye by an insect, I wear a…

This comment is important in how it shows biking is totally different in The Netherlands. The first type of bike most non-Dutch think of when they hear 'bicycle', where the rider sits hunched forward poised to race is not even considered a regular bike here. If you go faster than 15mph you are basically considered to be comparable to a moped and doing it without a helmet is frowned upon even here. When you are not in…

> When you are not in The Netherlands

There are other countries beside the NL and the USA.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#562

Post by barrystaes »

juiced wrote: post #239

Bullshit. I'm Dutch, never heard of or exercised this "Dutch Reach" behaviour and I was not tested for it when getting my driver's license. Instead, you just look around and in your mirrors to see if other traffic is coming before blindly and like an asshole opening your door, it doesn't matter how you open the door after you became aware of what is going on around you. I call this behaviour the "Dutch Common Sense".

Not bullshit: i also am dutch and my driving instructor taught me this right hand and look over shoulder technique. But i agree with parent comment otherwise: our solution to being "Doored" is more about common sense using the mirror (its there for a reason) and looking around, and not what hand we use. Its a helpful aid maybe. After reading this on HN i noticed i do tend to use BOTH hands.. left on the big grip and right on the handle-button. I think using both hands here is important as this is what allows you to retract the door, as other comments pointed out.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#563

Post by tremon »

cik2e wrote: post #450
mcv wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, do people in the US not use professional driving instructors in modified instruction cars? Doesn't that cause a lot of accidents?

When I was taking mandatory driver's ed at 16 in the US (Boston area), the school's fleet was indeed equipped with foot brakes in the passenger seat. I'd wager a guess that all of the cars that you see with a "beginner driver" sign on the roof are like that. However, for the license test the only requirement was to have a hand brake between the front seats. I have come to believe that we give out driver's licenses wa…

One easy [..] solution would be to require that the road test is taken on a manual.

Here in NL, we do distinguish between them: if you learn to drive (and do the exam) in a car with automatic shift, you get an annotation on your driver's license saying you're not allowed to drive a manual-shift car.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#564

Post by tremon »

gfodor wrote: post #216
stephenr wrote: post #215

I'm not quite sure I understand. Do Americans not look at what's coming from behind them before opening a slab of metal and glass a meter out the side of their cars? Kind of reminds me of when I first moved to Thailand. My (now) mother-in-law asked her daughter why I kept looking over my shoulder when driving her car, and why/if I couldn't use the side mirrors. She had literally never heard of nor understood the conc…

eh, depending on the car, often times a blind spot is just due to someone failing to adjust their mirrors properly. if you actually do it right, you should not have a blind spot. if you can see your own car in your side view mirrors, you've adjusted them wrong. if they are adjusted correctly, cars approaching on either side of your vehicle will pass from the rear view, to the side mirror, into your peripheral vision…

if they are adjusted correctly, cars approaching on either side of your vehicle will pass from the rear view, to the side mirror, into your peripheral vision with no gap of visibility.

That's incorrect. Unless you have an extremely wide (curved) side mirror, there always is a gap between the edge of the mirror and your peripheral vision. That gap is usually not large enough for a car to completely disappear (the nose of the car enters your peripheral vision before the rear end leaves the mirror), but smaller items may still disappear.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#565

Post by Illotus »

mjhagen wrote: post #265
arve0 wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or hang it on the bicycle?

That would certainly not get stolen.

Don't know about Netherlands, but here in Finland I've left my helmet hanging from the bars of my bicycle for a few years now and it hasn't been stolen yet. Bikes themselves do get stolen especially in the city center, but helmets don't.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#566

Post by Frqy3 »

veddox wrote: post #543

Wow, that's the first time I've seen 500+ comments on an HN thread about cycling! As to the "Dutch" grip: when I did driving school in Germany some years back, my teacher took great pains to impress on me to always look back before opening a door. In fact, not doing so can cause you to fail your driving test. As having to retake your driving test here can easily set you back several hundred euros, I learnt quickly...

An example of bikeshedding perhaps?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#567

Post by [deleted] »

cerebellum42 wrote: post #330
Etheryte wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While this could prevent some of the accidents, I'm not sure if the sum effect would be better. Allow me to explain: According to Google, the average cycling speed is 15.5km/h and the average car length is 4.5m. Surely these will differ a lot from area to area, but they're good for a ballpark measure. This means it takes a cyclist about one second (4.5m / 15.5kmh = 1.05s) to pass a parked car. Even if you have a car…

>According to Google, the average cycling speed is 15.5km/h That sounds like a speed averaged over a whole trip - including the phases of deceleration and acceleration before/after traffic lights. From my experience, most people are closer to 17-20km/h when traveling, with plenty of fit people going at 24+.

[deleted]

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#569

Post by stephenr »

gfodor wrote: post #556
sbov wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like to be able to see a tiny sliver of my car. This way I always know how they're adjusted. Without being able to see that piece of the car, they might be adjusted too far out and I have no easy way to tell.

well, if you see a sliver of your car, you know how they're adjusted: wrong :) seriously though, it's really easy to tell, just watch a car that is about to pass you transition across your mirrors into your peripheral vision. if there are any blind spots or periods where the car is highly visible in more than one visual source (mirror or peripheral vision) then you are seeing less than you are able to. i'm pretty sur…

You keep repeating this theory that the 'new' way for adjusting mirrors solves all problems, and simply ignore that it introduces different blind spots that small vehicles (such as motorbikes or bicycles) can disappear into.

Given that the article is about cyclist safety, and how it's improved by training drivers to look behind them in their blind spot, I find the irony of you suggesting this 'new' method to be amazing.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#570

Post by [deleted] »

sambe wrote: post #278
ptaipale wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Helmets prevent brain injury, but generally you'd have to be going pretty fast, or get hit by a car really fast to land on your head to require one (and then you probably have other injuries to contend with). This is wrong. There's some research done on that over here (Finland). First of all, about two thirds of severe bicycle injuries happen without any third parties involved, cars or not. Head injuries are the wo…

I've seen research in the past that suggested wearing helmets on average was neutral or negative (something to do with adding weight to the head?) but can never find it when this topic comes up. Do you have a reference for the Finnish research? Around the time I read about this research I also read that Switzerland and UK had been reluctant to regulate it in part due to conflicting research. Are you sure it's as clea…

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