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A Message to Our Customers

apple.com

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Re: A Message to Our Customers

#561

Post by snuxoll »

niij wrote: post #520
sametmax wrote: post #414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are, but apple have the keys : https://thehackernews.com/2016/01/apple-icloud-imessages.htm... So basically, they could be in clear text, it's pretty much the same.

Please see this link[1], Apple explains exactly how keys are stored in their datacenters (Hint: it is not in clear text). They use HSM's which destroy the user's key after 10 failed attempts. [1]: https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

This is only for Keychain escrow, device backups are not protected by HSM's.

Re: A Message to Our Customers

#562

Post by leonatan »

efaref wrote: post #490
MCRed wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And my understanding is that everything after the 5C is less vulnerable to even this attack (Which itself may not be possible, even with a firmware update.)

From what I heard later revisions won't accept a firmware update without either providing the passcode, or erasing the private key. Arguably, the fact that the 5C accepts a firmware update without the passcode is a security vulnerability and ought to be patched.

The hardware required for enforcing this is not found on 5C or older devices.

Re: A Message to Our Customers

#563

Post by [deleted] »

GuiA wrote: post #10
planetjones wrote: post #4

With the due legal process the police can search property, safety deposit boxes, bank accounts, vehicles, etc. etc. Why should a smartphone be any different just because Apple says it is ? As much as I value privacy I really don't agree with Apple's stance here - if due legal process has been followed, why shouldn't they be able to read the contents of an iPhone ? And yes I get that third party encryption can be used…

This is not the government asking to search a single vehicle or safebox, to take your examples. This is the government asking that every safebox or vehicle in the world be made instantly unlockable by design.

[deleted]

Re: A Message to Our Customers

#564

Post by cubano »

GuiA wrote: post #10
planetjones wrote: post #4

With the due legal process the police can search property, safety deposit boxes, bank accounts, vehicles, etc. etc. Why should a smartphone be any different just because Apple says it is ? As much as I value privacy I really don't agree with Apple's stance here - if due legal process has been followed, why shouldn't they be able to read the contents of an iPhone ? And yes I get that third party encryption can be used…

This is not the government asking to search a single vehicle or safebox, to take your examples. This is the government asking that every safebox or vehicle in the world be made instantly unlockable by design.

Am i missing something but aren't safeboxs and vehicles already made "unlockable by design"?

I am positive banks can open those things, and vehicles are inherently "openable", so I do not quite get the point here.

Re: A Message to Our Customers

#565

Post by jusben1369 »

tdaltonc wrote: post #531
jusben1369 wrote: post #512

I think, as a society, it boils down to this: "And while the government may argue that its use would be limited to this case, there is no way to guarantee such control." Can a private, for profit, company deny the will of an elected government working to solve a heinous crime based not on what they say they will do but because they cannot give a 100% guarantee that this is the only time/way it'll be used? Apple ackno…

I see your point. Defying a order from a democratic government is a big deal. But Apple isn't saying they wont do it. They just want to make it really clear that they're not happy about it and they want the government to change their mind. The government still has a monopoly on the legitimate use of force.

```Opposing this order is not something we take lightly. We feel we must speak up in the face of what we see as an overreach by the U.S. government. We are challenging the FBI’s demands with the deepest respect for American democracy and a love of our country```

I read into that that they are in fact fighting this? And I agree, I think it's great that Apple is forcing this discussion into the public domain. These are key issues for us all.

Re: A Message to Our Customers

#566

Post by JustSomeNobody »

rms_returns wrote: post #21

This is quite unlike Apple. Is this the same company that insists on keeping its source proprietary and is always against FOSS? The idea that you care for your users' privacy and still like to keep control on them by not giving them the freedom to modify source-code is not what I buy.

https://lmddgtfy.net/?q=define%20conflate

Re: A Message to Our Customers

#567

Post by School-Cotton »

cognivore wrote: post #407

If I were Cook, I'd draw a line in the sand. If we are force to comply, we exit the phone business, because we won't make phones that compromise our customer's security. But that would take more balls than anyone left here in this "Land of the free and home of the brave" seems to have left anymore.

He'd be fired immediately.

Re: A Message to Our Customers

#569

Post by FIX_IT »

epaga wrote: post #2

Huge props to Apple - here's hoping against hope that Google, Facebook, and Amazon get behind this. One thing I was wondering is how Apple is even able to create a backdoor. It is explained toward the end: "The government would have us remove security features and add new capabilities to the operating system, allowing a passcode to be input electronically. This would make it easier to unlock an iPhone by “brute force…

When I forgot the password for my iPhone I tried untill it said "connect to ITunes" when I connected to iTunes nothing happened so I clicked restore realised I had not backed up my iPhone so I clicked backup hoping that it would backup but it said that I needed to sign in this then relied the boundary of not letting me type the password in or holding me back. So I have created a program that repeatedly does that. (There are no need for fancy backdoors)

Re: A Message to Our Customers

#570

Post by School-Cotton »

squidlogic wrote: post #541
eva1984 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will probably produce some China-only version to please the government. A open letter like this, will instantly end their relationship with the government, they won't even attempt to do it.

I thought they already did this, but I have no proof. It seems reasonable because Google got evicted from China for not playing ball, so I find it hard to believe that Apple would get a free pass.

I don't know if they'll get a free pass or not, but Apple is a lot more popular among the Chinese youth/middle class/intelligentsia than Google. They may have a bit more sway.
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