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Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

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Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#551

Post by donotsurveil »

AndyKelley wrote: post #496
Steuard wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The term "bro" has been closely associated in the tech world lately with things like "brogrammer" culture. I don't know whether that was the intended reference in this case (though it seems pretty likely to me that something of the sort was on the authors' minds when they chose the name: why else would the term feel relevant?). But the real issue isn't "What did they intend?" in any case: it's "What impact might this…

What's wrong with gendered things? The programming language Julia is female, and nobody seems to have a problem with that. What's wrong with a tool that has a male gendered name?

Julia is a first name which is free of negative association.

Bro is associated with obnoxious, stupid, despicable, disrespectful.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#552

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

reallyseriously wrote: post #532
oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? You genuinely think that 'software tool with female name' is as 'bad' as 'software tool with male name'[0]? And you can't work out why it isn't? Here's a clue: the software industry (along with many other industries, sadly) has a certain misogynistic element that discourages women from taking part, and humanity loses out as a result. That is why perpetuating the male-centric, frat-boy atmosphere is bad on…

"You genuinely think that 'software tool with female name' is as 'bad' as 'software tool with male name?" No, I said that a software tool with a male or female name would not be sexist by definition and I wouldn't find them exclusionary either. Edit: So yes, I'm equally unoffended by both. As for the rest of your comments, I'm in a thread about a software tool named "bro". I understand the word "bro" to be a casual g…

> No, I said that a software tool with a male or female name would not be sexist by definition

Sorry, you're right, I totally missed that. I've spotted a huge number of examples of the 'turn it on its head' strawman argument in this thread, and carelessly caught yours up in the same set without reading more carefully - apologies.

Gathering from this thread, the word "bro" obviously has various meanings. Many of us have been exposed to it alongside negative connotations, more negative than just 'predominately male', although even that usage could be considered exclusionary.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#553

Post by etjossem »

donotsurveil wrote: post #551
AndyKelley wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's wrong with gendered things? The programming language Julia is female, and nobody seems to have a problem with that. What's wrong with a tool that has a male gendered name?

Julia is a first name which is free of negative association. Bro is associated with obnoxious, stupid, despicable, disrespectful.

Git is associated with completely ignorant, childish, and lacking in manners. So what? It's the name of a piece of software, and if there's sufficient adoption, it starts to lose its old meaning in a tech context.

Which, for "bro", is fine by me.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#554

Post by KVFinn »

paul wrote: post #464
mtrimpe wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait; did you just define calling out a needlessly offensive name as evil? You do realise that would sort of be making the exact point I was trying to make, right? Or am I missing some seriously self-deprecating joke here?

Words are meaningless without definition. You say that the word "bro" is needlessly offensive. Let me ask you, where is your balance point? What is the right level of offensive? The cost of censorship is real, and teaching people to be helpless victims does more harm than any word ever could.

>The cost of censorship is real

A portion of your potential audience giving you feedback that think that they the name is bad is 'censorship'?

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#555

Post by reallyseriously »

oneeyedpigeon wrote: post #552
reallyseriously wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"You genuinely think that 'software tool with female name' is as 'bad' as 'software tool with male name?" No, I said that a software tool with a male or female name would not be sexist by definition and I wouldn't find them exclusionary either. Edit: So yes, I'm equally unoffended by both. As for the rest of your comments, I'm in a thread about a software tool named "bro". I understand the word "bro" to be a casual g…

> No, I said that a software tool with a male or female name would not be sexist by definition Sorry, you're right, I totally missed that. I've spotted a huge number of examples of the 'turn it on its head' strawman argument in this thread, and carelessly caught yours up in the same set without reading more carefully - apologies. Gathering from this thread, the word "bro" obviously has various meanings. Many of us ha…

Well thanks a lot, now I feel like a jerk for being so uppity. jk. I'd never heard the term brogrammer anywhere but HN and just reading it, no less typing it makes me cringe a little. Take care.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#556

Post by aceofspades19 »

blahedo wrote: post #99

Great idea; shame about the name. Here's the problem with using words like "bro" (however jokingly): the problem is not with what you [0] are thinking when you read the word "bro", but with what other people , especially newcomers, are thinking. The locker-room atmosphere that stuff like this creates is a huge barrier to entry for a lot of people, women especially, who infer that on top of all the technically difficu…

Both me and my girlfriend work in tech and she wasn't offended by the name 'bropages'. Furthermore, she disagreed with your comment completely. She doesn't feel excluded or discriminated from the name 'bropages'. Hell, I even call her dude all the time and it doesn't bother her in the slightest.

There as an episode of a tv show called community where they tried to make a mascot that wasn't offensive to anyone. It ended up being a "human" that had no face and the letter H on the front. I don't think anyone that shows off a project here should be attacked for it being offensive to some subset of people here unless it explicitly encourages hate.

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#557

Post by evolve2k »

Perseids wrote: post #441
TeMPOraL wrote: post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about just: don't use it if you don't like it. > If the authors had wanted this to be a cute in-joke for the bros, then why did they publish it to the entire world? Are you suggesting that people should refrain from publishing things that are contrary to mainstream fashions? (I can't call all this let's-see-gender-issues-in-everything crap anything else than a stupid fashion that hopefully goes away soon) Also, t…

> How about just: don't use it if you don't like it. But I want to use it, it looks like a great tool. Forking it just to use a different name seems unfair and waste of everyones resources. > Are you suggesting that people should refrain from publishing things that are contrary to mainstream fashions? It's not about mainstream "fashion", but about a certain cultural neutrality. I don't ask for this neutrality when yo…

With this much concern in the community a fork actually isn't a silly idea. Anyone prepared to actually fork this thing? Anyone have other name suggestions?

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#558

Post by reinhardt »

paul wrote: post #155

Awesome idea. Shame about the humorless nature of this community. To me, a "bro" is a dumb, fratboy version of a man, which makes the name hilariously perfect. If you're feeling oppressed and excluded by a command name, your real problems lie elsewhere.

It used to be the case that social justice warriors getting offended whenever their pet cause is looked the wrong way had an overwhelming presence in comments and impressions. With such ridiculous think-of-teh-womynz brouhahas breaking out every few weeks, it is telling (and encouraging) that more people of the generally neutral silent majority start speaking up against the silliness. Keep it up, "bro" :)

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#559

Post by KVFinn »

paul wrote: post #205
natch wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not feeling oppressed. The problem isn't me feeling oppressed, it's other people feeling oppressed. Poor choice of language can set up an exclusionary environment. To you, this may be funny. To me, your accusation of humorlessness reminds me of people who engage in sexually harassing "jokes" in the workplace, and then try to get away with it by using "humor" as an excuse. You aren't the one who gets to decide whe…

Your attitude and remarks are creating a hostile and uncomfortable environment for me. I demand that you stop immediately.

>Your attitude and remarks are creating a hostile and uncomfortable environment for me. I demand that you stop immediately.

I don't understand the point you are making. If your remarks were making me feel uncomfortable wouldn't you expect me to say so? Why not?

Re: Bro pages: like man pages, but with examples only

#560

Post by mayneack »

3 entries for alias -- submit your own example with "bro add alias"

# make 'sis' equivalent to 'bro' alias sis=bro

        bro thanks      to upvote (1)
        bro ...no       to downvote (0)
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