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Diamonds Are Bullshit

blog.priceonomics.com

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Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#551

Post by nawitus »

peterarmstrong wrote: post #416
jenius wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You absolutely nailed it with this comment. Was reading pieces of the debate out loud to my girlfriend, who is rather rational and intelligent but for some reason still wants a diamond ring (and I couldn't really figure out why) - when I read this and looked over, I knew you got it 100% right. Well done.

Yeah, the things that women do in order to outdo their female friends are expensive and pointless--almost as much so as the things that men do to outdo their male friends!

At least men tend to spend their own money to increase social status by buying more expensive cars and gadgets.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#552

Post by Nursie »

rayiner wrote: post #200
guylhem wrote: post #178

I see people talking about various things like the (1) (2) (3) arguments for a women to evaluate a man : (1) is the ability to provide; 2) is the willingness to forgo other things (opportunity costs to talk economics) (3) "is demonstrating to the woman's peers her husband's social standing." (signalling) Raynier posted this deep down in a reply which might be lost to you if you don't read all the comments. It would b…

Its' really hard to live life stepping on eggshells worrying about injustices to other people. At the end of the day, I bet most people on this thread drive, and there is very little else that humans do that does more violence to the environment and to other humans than the use of fossil fuels. It goes far beyond that. If you're an American, your comfortable life exists because of the American government's willingnes…

It's massively hypocritical to single out diamonds amongst all this.

No it's not. Diamonds are far more optional than fuel. And tackling small problems does not need to be put off just because you haven't tackled a larger on yet. Faulty logic.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#553

Post by slavak »

taejo wrote: post #490
slavak wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why many women will accept, at the rational level, that diamonds are horrible and stupid and even evil (since they fuel all kinds of violence in Africa, where they are mined). But most of them will not be able to bring themselves to accept substitutes such as sapphires, rubies, or emeralds. Because that would make their female friends think that the guy does not value them as much (or that they weren't able…

> but eventually had to settle for a natural one which wasn't sourced from Africa Because Africa is all one big war zone. Because any money sent to Africa funds violence. Seriously? Why is it so much better to buy from Russia than South Africa or Botswana? (the money's all going to De Beers -- which was originally a South African company -- or a similar multinational anyway). The top four diamond-producing countries…

No, but it's impossible for me to know where in Africa the diamond is coming from, which means it's impossible to know whether or not it's a conflict diamond. I know that diamond miners in Russia or India have decent working conditions and that there's no chance of the proceeds going to fund a bloody civil war; I have no such confidence when the most specific answer the jeweler can give me regarding the stone's origins is "Africa."

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#554

Post by nawitus »

lxwang wrote: post #512
pyre wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| It doesn't have anything to do with financial | security. Look, if your man is spending three | months worth of salary on a piece of shiny | rock, he is exercising poor financial judgment | and that is a signal against future financial | security. But A Diamond is Forever. It's an investment. If you're ever on hard times, then you can just turn around and sell the... oh... ;-)

If you are seriously worried about that, it's a huge sign you're not committed. Tiny resale value is preferable here.

Committed doesn't mean that there's zero chance of a failed relationship. In fact, there's a rather high chance that any given relationship will fail these days. There's nothing wrong by realizing that it's a possibility and it shouldn't signal non-commitment.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#555

Post by Nursie »

rayiner wrote: post #115
drivebyacct2 wrote: post #17

Maybe I'm spoiled as a nerdy (and interested in nerdy) gay guy, but I pity those in this thread saying that their fiancee wouldn't listen to reason about this. It slays me that "tradition" is so important to people that they will waste such vast amounts of money and prop up such a gross, violent industry in the face of reason.

It irks me a little bit that the issue is painted as one of "reason" versus lack thereof. There is a rationality in adhering to social convention. My wife is a diamond nerd, as well as one of the most rational people you'll ever meet, and she'd explain it this way: the diamond is a test that serves various useful purposes from the perspective of the woman: 1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide; 2) It demons…

"1) It demonstrates the man's ability to provide;"

I can do that by buying houses. Diamonds are only a good indicator of frivolity with cash.

"2) It demonstrates the man's willingness to forgo the other things he could buy with the money for a gift for her that does not directly benefit him in any way;"

It demonstrates a lack of sense on the part of both parties.

"3) It demonstrates to the woman's peers her husband's social standing."

Not if you start to look at it as a huge waste of cash it doesn't.

--edit-- to expand on that last point; if diamonds started to be viewed as a pointless and vulgar excess, like shiny rims or a full set of gold teeth, then it could demonstrate a lack of social standing. They only currently demonstrate a positive social message because of convention. Why not change convention?

I wanted to bring up rims and teeth to head off the obvious criticism that something expensive (the diamond) is worn to demonstrate exactly that you don't have to think about money - many other things purchased for this reason are sneered at by most people.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#556

Post by webmonkeyuk »

I think the author of the article is way off the mark. An engagement ring isn't any kind of a financial investment (unless you think the wedding's unlikely to happen and you want to sell the ring/diamond). It's a token of committment/love.

Re: Diamonds Are Bullshit

#560

Post by kkshin »

utopkara wrote: post #474
kkshin wrote: post #251

I just went through the process of whether I would purchase a diamond engagement ring for my fiancee or not. Rationally, it made absolutely no sense to me for the following reasons: 1) The idea of "blood" diamonds as well as the fat that the industry marks up diamonds to a ridiculous notion without translating any of those benefits to the societies it exploits. 2) There is no tangible benefit to a diamond ring that C…

Don't refrain from buying because diamonds are hard to extract, and people have to work hard for it. But, because the whole trade is dirty, and you don't want to take part in it. All diamonds are dirty because of the conflict diamonds, there can be no non-conflict diamonds. By purchasing diamonds, you are helping to keep the prices up and funding the blood diamonds as well.

I don't agree with your statement. Its equivalent to saying that I shouldn't consider buying ethically raised meat because its the same industry that factory farms are part of. One can identify the ethical quandaries and support producers that choose to eliminate them.
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