Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Rust type system helps you catch logic errors at compile time. Same with Haskell or Ocaml.
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Wrong. For starters, a good typing system absolutely helps catching logic errors at compile time.
Google fixed more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI
551–560 of 668 posts
Re: Google fixed more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI
#552Earlier quoted context omitted.
Which model and harness did you try?
5.6 Sol on Codex, Opus 5 on Claude Code. (See sibling message, I'm not saying they're useless)
Then it's for sure a guidance or missing context issue. When given full access to everything they need, these models deliver results on par or above the best coders I've ever met and they are lightyears ahead of the lower 90% of developers. I feel more and more that when users report they can't solve their problems this way, it's like when a gorilla is mad at Einstein after talking to him and he didn't make bananas grow instantly.
Re: Google fixed more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI
#553To me this merely signals how broken C++ development really is. Most if not all of the bugs being uncovered are memory related and therefore intimately tied to the mental memory model of C and C++, namely manual memory management. It's fine for a C or C++ program encompassing a couple hundred lines but beyond that it's a liability. C and C++ are simply not fit for purpose when large scale software projects are concer…
I'll await your Rust ports of Windows, Linux and MacOS then. This isn't really a fair take. Keep in mind that C/C++ has been the backbone of the most important software in the world since the 1970s. At that time we didn't have virtually unlimited compute and memory at our fingertips the way we do now. It was a huge improvement to have a high level language which still could be optimized nearly as well as assembly. It…
> I'll await your Rust ports of Windows, Linux and MacOS then.
I’d love to have that happen within the next century. I might not be around for it, but I’d say that humanity deserves software that has fewer memory issues.
Re: Google fixed more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI
#554Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ekhem. When Chrome was announced there wasnt Rust. And Java was a programming language for slow moving systems, with many a flaws and its own classes of footguns. I dont think they had much of a choice in 2008. Now? Sure. I bet a rust port is in the works.
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Quite frankly, this post is massive set of unsubstantiated claims.
For starters, no one said the only problem with Chromium is C++. But it certainly contributes with some of the problems (specially those related to security). And, no, these bugs don't come from "noob programmers." They come from experienced engineers.
Then you just mention that removed some "unnecessary and unwanted" code. According to what standard? You? Would be nice if you went into specifics and provided some benchmarks. Instead we are forced to take the word that a user "rustfreeforme" (wonder which biases they have) made an polished fork, instead of, possibly, mangling the code in such a way that just benefits them and screws other people.
Finally, Rust doesn't: make the code more complex than C++, specially if using the STL; doesn't make compilations slower, as C++ and Rust compilation times are on par (and keep in mind Rust is very unoptimized here, where as C++ is slow by design).
Re: Google fixed more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI
#555What remains to be seen is whether Google also introduced more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI. The big problem is that AI output can be very convincing and look "right", even appear to work, until you examine it in detail and realise all the edge-cases it didn't handle.
If that is the case, isn't that the failure of your testing strategy/setup? If your style doesn't fit full vibe coding - you can do the path of AI generate code - human reviews and tests all edge cases flow - I think in any serious software - that should be the flow until next few iterations. But either way, don't see a going back to coding every line by hand now, those days are gone. Was fun while it lasted!
Re: Google fixed more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI
#556What remains to be seen is whether Google also introduced more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI. The big problem is that AI output can be very convincing and look "right", even appear to work, until you examine it in detail and realise all the edge-cases it didn't handle.
If that is the case, isn't that the failure of your testing strategy/setup? If your style doesn't fit full vibe coding - you can do the path of AI generate code - human reviews and tests all edge cases flow - I think in any serious software - that should be the flow until next few iterations. But either way, don't see a going back to coding every line by hand now, those days are gone. Was fun while it lasted!
No. I’ve heard this argument multiple times before - “let the human review and write tests” - and sure it might work, but this is almost never practiced. AI makes coding a lot faster, so no one is really ready to spend time on manual review and writing tests when LLMs can do that as well and take you most of the way.
Re: Google fixed more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI
#557What remains to be seen is whether Google also introduced more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI. The big problem is that AI output can be very convincing and look "right", even appear to work, until you examine it in detail and realise all the edge-cases it didn't handle.
Its also has no big picture - it just can add ever more - cancer can grow, but it will kill the host organism and end years down the line as a dead end.
The "engineers" using that AI. Could they repass the whiteboard tests of old? Have not some of them quietly left?
Re: Google fixed more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI
#558What remains to be seen is whether Google also introduced more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI. The big problem is that AI output can be very convincing and look "right", even appear to work, until you examine it in detail and realise all the edge-cases it didn't handle.
Let's replay this post but imagine Google made this announcement before LLMs were wide-spread (say, 2019). Below, I replace "AI" with "human programmers".
> What remains to be seen is whether Google also introduced more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to human programmers.
> The big problem is that human programmers output can be very convincing and look "right", even appear to work, until you examine it in detail and realise all the edge-cases it didn't handle.
Re: Google fixed more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI
#559Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well we make work with the tools we have It worked well enough, maybe "fit for purpose" is a stronger word
Makes sense, but strangely, no one has responded to my question about why Servo hasn't been picked up, if Rust is such an important factor in browser engine implementation. People are calling using C and C++ "ridiculous" and "irresponsible" and "not fit for purpose". And yet, no one's using the alternative that's sitting right there?
Because Servo is unfinished, and companies have different priorities. For instance, Microsoft could've have been strict and formally checked code for Windows since the inception of constraint checkers, but they chose other priorities. Now they're are slowly trying to integrate Rust to help reduce security bugs.
Re: Google fixed more Chrome bugs in June than over the past two years, thanks to AI
#560To me this merely signals how broken C++ development really is. Most if not all of the bugs being uncovered are memory related and therefore intimately tied to the mental memory model of C and C++, namely manual memory management. It's fine for a C or C++ program encompassing a couple hundred lines but beyond that it's a liability. C and C++ are simply not fit for purpose when large scale software projects are concer…
Assume that you are writing a green field project in C++. If you never use "naked pointers" and always use std::unique_ptr and std::shared_ptr, will it not reduce nearly all memory related bugs? I don't have a lot of experience with them, but I found it dramatically reduced memory related bugs. I'm a very average C++ programmer, and those templates helped me greatly. Do you think it would help Chrome/ium to use (more) std::unique_ptr and std::shared_ptr?