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Rent collections are down in New York

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Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#551

Post by digitaltrees »

rayiner wrote: post #525
digitaltrees wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you design the city correctly around self contained neighborhoods that are no more than a 15 minute walk no one has to commute that far.

This makes no sense. People want to commute to the best job they can get, not the one that happens to be in their neighborhood. And people aren't going to move neighborhoods when they move jobs, especially with spouses and kids who have jobs and schools in the existing place.

Id argue you are just taking the status quo as inevitable when it is really just a result of policy choices and not how human society has ever been structured before

Madrid is doing this. Savanah Georgia did this. Manhattan did this. You could also reverse the consolidation of everything. Instead of CVS owning every pharmacy, incentives to prompt the pharmacy being owned by the pharmacist. Or a local butcher. And most jobs that require commutes don't require it now, and if cities were built with the appropriate mix of housing all incomes could live in a section of down further cutting down on commutes.

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#552

Post by digitaltrees »

mrguyorama wrote: post #523
dgoldstein0 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Globalization wasn't a loss for all of America - the benefit of shipping manufacturing overseas was that the resulting imports were cheaper than producing domestically. After all if they weren't, people would've preferred to buy domestic. So it was a net win for the consumer via cheaper goods, but came at the expense of Detroit, Pittsburgh and other "rust belt" cities & communities. We're still grappling with the con…

If your purchasing power is cut in half because you lost your manufacturing job and had to replace it with running a cash register, but the cost of toys also dropped in half (but not things like food and housing, which doubled in price), are you actually better off? No. Average Americans are poorer now than they were before they could buy everything at Walmart. As long as housing continues to be a "Line must go up" i…

Excellent analysis.

I'll see if I can find a source i saw recently that showed that thinks like appliances, TVs, computer, toys, clothes etc that were outsourceable have dropped in price a lot but health care, education, insurance, housing and basically every domestic has increased at rates well beyond inflation and incomes.

And part of the problem is systematic under investment in the public sector. We haven't built enough schools, hospitals or required universities to expand in proportion to the population.

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#553

Post by lmm »

archagon wrote: post #549
lmm wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not getting to live on my street is not "just as horrible" as getting kicked to the curb with pets and/or dependents and losing your entire lifestyle and community without warning or recourse. Come off it, no-one's talking about kicking people out on the curb instantly. I'm all for processes and reasonable notice periods. But ultimately if you're not willing to pay what it costs to live where you do, yeah you shoul…

Sounds like folks who don't like rent control should move to Texas, then. Market forces and all. Anyway, you can get mad at this policy all you want, but the bottom line is this: renters don't like getting priced out of their homes and far outnumber landowners. They will vote for rent control as the economy starts to squeeze them. Maybe more effort should be put into thinking of ways to incentivize housing constructi…

> Maybe more effort should be put into thinking of ways to incentivize housing construction

A properly functioning housing market is a way to incentivise housing construction.

> Also, as a rent-controlled renter, I'd love more housing to be built near me. I don't think I've ever met any renters who feel otherwise. Most of the actual NIMBYs seem to be owners, not renters. As for how would they know that more housing is needed? Um, by reading the news and talking to people? It's a constant topic of conversation in SF.

Everyone talks a good game about supporting more homebuilding, yet somehow SF never builds any homes.

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#554

Post by archagon »

lmm wrote: post #553
archagon wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like folks who don't like rent control should move to Texas, then. Market forces and all. Anyway, you can get mad at this policy all you want, but the bottom line is this: renters don't like getting priced out of their homes and far outnumber landowners. They will vote for rent control as the economy starts to squeeze them. Maybe more effort should be put into thinking of ways to incentivize housing constructi…

> Maybe more effort should be put into thinking of ways to incentivize housing construction A properly functioning housing market is a way to incentivise housing construction. > Also, as a rent-controlled renter, I'd love more housing to be built near me. I don't think I've ever met any renters who feel otherwise. Most of the actual NIMBYs seem to be owners, not renters. As for how would they know that more housing i…

But again, you will not get rid of rent control by getting mad about it. Renters literally do not care; they need housing security first and foremost. They will not vote for their own evictions just for the promise of lower rent many years in the future.

As for housing, we’re working on it: https://sfyimby.com/2026/06/formal-application-for-bernal-he...

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#555

Post by digitaltrees »

registeredcorn wrote: post #365
epsteingpt wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Detroit was the hub of the auto industry. Outsourcing and foreign competition hollowed out the central city (which deliberately didn't have public transit) and left gigantic abandoned houses and skyscrapers throughout. There has been massive public investment and popular support to cause a revival of sorts in the city and is a success story. Go look at some photos from like 2010-2014.

How was the work outsourced around that timeframe? Do they no longer have an auto-industry at all in Detroit, or is it just greatly reduced?

The great lakes cities were the wealthiest most influential region for a period of time. Go watch movies from the 80s. Detroit was the industrial heart of America.

There are lots of factors but broadly characterizing them as globalization is generally fair. Some included: The rise of japanese cars added competition but they were held at bay by import restrictions and the American preference for massive cars until the gas shortages in the 70s, the trend towards efficient capital meant most industrial firms switched to prioritizing their more profitable financing arms, Reagan liberalized international trade that let foreign imports into the US market, NAFTA moving manufacturing to mexico and canada, companies moving manufacturing to non union states in the south, then moving the parts supply chain abroad.

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#556

Post by [deleted] »

halfxing wrote: post #252
dfxm12 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The landlord can divest themselves of the property. It's also ok if people lose money on investments. I don't think you have to feel especially bad for landlords.

> It's also ok if people lose money on investments. The more likely it is for landlords to lose money on the housing provided, the more rents will go up to account for that risk premium. It's no different than risk-return calculations for any other investments such as stocks.

[deleted]

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#557

Post by youre-wrong3 »

bluebarbet wrote: post #535
youre-wrong3 wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Social housing is government owned and rented. Singapore is government built and sold. Singapore is a tiny island with little space. The government has to control what is built where and avoids it turning into Hong Kong slums.

You're being stubborn. From Wikipedia: >Public housing, also known as social housing, is subsidized or affordable housing provided in buildings that are usually owned and managed by local government, central government, nonprofit organizations or a combination thereof.

ITS NOT OWNED AND MANAGED BY THE GOVERNMENT.

You literally just quoted why it’s not public housing. Jesus Christ.

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#558

Post by lmm »

archagon wrote: post #554
lmm wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe more effort should be put into thinking of ways to incentivize housing construction A properly functioning housing market is a way to incentivise housing construction. > Also, as a rent-controlled renter, I'd love more housing to be built near me. I don't think I've ever met any renters who feel otherwise. Most of the actual NIMBYs seem to be owners, not renters. As for how would they know that more housing i…

But again, you will not get rid of rent control by getting mad about it. Renters literally do not care; they need housing security first and foremost. They will not vote for their own evictions just for the promise of lower rent many years in the future. As for housing, we’re working on it: https://sfyimby.com/2026/06/formal-application-for-bernal-he...

> you will not get rid of rent control by getting mad about it. Renters literally do not care; they need housing security first and foremost. They will not vote for their own evictions just for the promise of lower rent many years in the future.

Maybe stories of massive, immediate increase in housing supply in places that scrapped rent control will change their minds. Maybe appeals to fairness will work. It's certainly got no worse chance of working out than trying to build houses in San Francisco, which smart, motivated people have been trying very hard to do for decades to no avail.

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#559

Post by albedoa »

hagbard_c wrote: post #532
albedoa wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

What a strange remark, both the 'no way' as well as the ad-hominem related to the odd choice of a 'democratic socialist' as mayor for NYC. There was a time when people with differing political opinions could get along outside of the realm of politics but this has been made impossible by people who react like you just did here.

The reason why nobody gets along with you has literally nothing to do with your "differing political opinions" and everything to do with the fact that I have to tell you that.

Re: Rent collections are down in New York

#560

Post by littlexsparkee »

epsteingpt wrote: post #198

For those looking for the actual data. It's from 2024 - says nothing about the current situation. * ~37K affordable housing units (baseline) across ~400 projects * 89% rent collection rate (down from 90.6% in 2023) * That's 600 units that went 'delinquent' in 2024 - assuming a $24K 'base' rent (just a guess) that's $15M in lost rent. * Deeply troubled projects (that can't survive without this rent) are at 11% - seems…

the main reasons for public housing failing (see Cabrini Greene, Pruitt Igoe) in the US are concentrated poverty, rents not covering maintenance/capital expenses, lack of good jobs (too far to access on transit, companies relocated to suburbs), high youth to adult ratios. it's too reductive to say lack of ownership when tenants formed unions to get thing fixed but management didn't have funds, threat to maintenance workers (needing police escort to do work), organizational issues with mgmt (patronage system for jobs in public housing, lack of accountability).
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