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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#551

Post by Tangurena2 »

ddxv wrote: post #313

The US is slowly becoming more like China. From talks of nationalizing companies to make US state owned entities to banning foreign competition. It's just so strange how you become the thing you fear.

I think America is becoming more like Russia, with a dictator who eliminates any billionaire who disagrees with His Dictatorship. The American groups who want to go back to the "glory years" of the 1950s are equivalent to the Russian groups who want to go back to the "glory years" of the Soviet Union.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#552

Post by hereme888 »

inigyou wrote: post #455
hereme888 wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those data centers that "states" want to block: the CCP was directly tied to funding the protests and movements to weaken the U.S. technologically. Kevin O'Leary exposed it, in collaboration with the White House.

Or maybe people want to be able to sleep? How the fuck did the AI bubble industry manage to take one of the cleanest industries and make it dirty again?

That's precisely the CCP brainwashing: the data centers in question were actually VERY clean, and would give the communities a ton of jobs.

This happens all the time for people with agendas: pollution fear mongering for projects that are actually super clean and useful.

Seen it happen in real life, many times.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#553

Post by FinnKuhn »

bjackman wrote: post #523
grafmax wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO US vs Chinese data vacuuming is a false choice. One of the main benefits of these open weights models is that you can get the privacy and cost savings by hosting your own model in cloud infrastructure. Open weights models are only 4.5 months behind closed weight ones. The fact that US considers propping its flagship technology by blacklisting competitors demonstrates how small the US competitive advantage really…

Hosting DeepSeek Pro yourself is gonna be wildly expensive though? You have a wide choice of providers available, so if you can find one you trust you can get inference without data harvesting and it's still very cheap. But dedicated HW is insanely inefficient. Opus estimates you can do it for $13k/month if you get committed pricing on the HW.

I guess this depends on the scale you are planning. For big multinational cooperations that calculation could look different.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#554

Post by greenavocado »

eru wrote: post #470
greenavocado wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said a high TFR means a vibrant society. A low TFR is indisputably the slow death of a society.

Vatican is the deadest of societies, I guess?

Correct

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#555

Post by limflick »

hodgehog11 wrote: post #508
josephg wrote: post #479

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was my experience too. I asked fable to implement a (quite complex, novel) CRDT engine. It did fantastic work for the 3 days I had access to it. The spec it wrote is exactly what I want. It used prototypes and examples to figure out some hard problems and answer a lot of complex design questions. Claude Opus has been lumbering along over the last week trying to turn what it did into a useful library. As far as I…

It's been pretty cool (and a bit scary) to hear similar experiences from many other researchers and developers just how impressive Fable was for their particular workflow and the productivity it seemed to unlock. Personally, I have found that I can't let any of the other AI agents touch the code that Fable produced for me, since they consistently fail to understand the very delicate choices that it made to ensure opt…

> they consistently fail to understand the very delicate choices that it made to ensure optimal performance.

Do you have an example?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#556

Post by WarmWash »

inigyou wrote: post #443
WarmWash wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Soft power primarily (see my original comment),and less data for western labs to train on, less money for western labs to have. The state can use their AI as a tool to bolster their standing, which is working well. Chinese AI labs don't have to worry about making money or affording more compute. The state will (and does) give them whatever they need.

Oh no! A group of people doing useful and good things to increase their reputation! That's terrible! But seriously, if it works so well, why don't we do it too?

Because the US is a democracy and there is blowback for pissing off the public. So allocating hundred of billions of taxpayer money to AI would be enormously unpopular. We have private markets that can spend their money however they chose.

China just has the state with one leader than thats it.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#557

Post by limflick »

neuroelectron wrote: post #425
grafmax wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO US vs Chinese data vacuuming is a false choice. One of the main benefits of these open weights models is that you can get the privacy and cost savings by hosting your own model in cloud infrastructure. Open weights models are only 4.5 months behind closed weight ones. The fact that US considers propping its flagship technology by blacklisting competitors demonstrates how small the US competitive advantage really…

The USA has an entire economic system to financialize your personal data and obfuscate your privacy. China can just sniff on their citizens API Calls, and use that to distill models.

>obfuscate your privacy.

Edward Snowden says hello.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#558

Post by greenavocado »

petersellers wrote: post #505
greenavocado wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never said a high TFR means a vibrant society. A low TFR is indisputably the slow death of a society.

Not necessarily if you take immigration into account.

A society replaced by immigrants is no longer that same society. My original point still stands.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#559

Post by ngc248 »

deaux wrote: post #416
ddxv wrote: post #313

The US is slowly becoming more like China. From talks of nationalizing companies to make US state owned entities to banning foreign competition. It's just so strange how you become the thing you fear.

> The US is slowly becoming more like China. Hah, if only. Then at least it would see some of the benefits too. Instead, it's making sure to only copy all of the downsides, with zero of the upsides.

Bro, you have "grass is greener on the other side" syndrome. China is a totalitarian state not comparable to the US. Take this from a non-US citizen. There maybe some backsliding or ppl may think things are worsening in the US, but US citizens always have the power to make things right, coz they are free and they can bear arms.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#560

Post by NicoJuicy »

hodgehog11 wrote: post #389
apatheticonion wrote: post #320

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

In terms of price-to-productivity, nothing will beat DeepSeek right now. For what you have described, all of the existing frontier models will perform well (probably about the same even). If you expanded the list to very hard research tasks, Fable was so far ahead of the others that it doesn't even deserve debate. If you are a researcher doing something involving scientific computation or mathematics that wasn't reje…

I have the feeling MiMo v2.5 Pro uses a lot less tokens and so a lot cheaper ( comparable pricepoint)
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