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Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

mullvad.net

551–560 of 561 posts

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry. Your government is creating plenty of laws to make to blatantly expensive to run anything that can compete with them.

Why would I want anyone to "compete" with so-called "tech" companies if I believe their "business model" is fundamentally-flawed The cause of this legislation is the proliferation of that "business model" Namely, creating large audiences for advertising,^1 data collection and surveillance through intermediation, i.e., acting as a middleman, the opposite of peer-to-peer "Big Tech" does not compete. It acquires potenti…

[deleted]

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither does the normal web. It became this way. The ability to run decentralized is not what is preventing enshittification. I would argue eg. a LoRa based Reticulum network is enshittification resistant, because of physical bandwidth and range limitations. It enforces decentralization and abuse/advertisement/... inherently doesn't scale, is not worth the effort. It favors authentic, low reach human2human informatio…

The internet itself is not enshittified. Certain websites and services on it are. Ever heard of HN?

So, then why exactly do we need an alternative?

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh I understand the tech is there to provide zero knowledge proofs, etc. But honestly don't really agree it's a reasonable approach to the Internet. I shouldn't need something issued by the state merely to visit a website.

you mean you don't want to? why not? are you just too used to status quo that's benefiting you right now? It's not like I'm excited about it either, I'm just not finding any reasons other than simply not liking it. We didn't need a proof of identity to access the internet before because 1) No one was interested enough to demand it because it's lack of widespread dependency like today 2) The tech to prove that didn't…

> study after study is damning against the unfettered access of it.

No child is accessing the Internet without something a parent allowed them (or a different child) to have.

Bad parents are the root of most of societal ills. This is an example of the "terrible people" you mention. Societies need to take a serious look at that. You can require all the privacy-preserving ID checks you want and completely hollow out all rights in the name of children, but you're still going to have the root causes that create bad parents who harm their children through neglect and abuse. ID checks won't stop bad parents from being bad parents.

I don't know what you're adding to conversations about this other than "it won't be so bad if done the right way, so just accept it."

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#554

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The internet itself is not enshittified. Certain websites and services on it are. Ever heard of HN?

So, then why exactly do we need an alternative?

We need an alternative to the enshittified services, not to the Internet.

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you mean you don't want to? why not? are you just too used to status quo that's benefiting you right now? It's not like I'm excited about it either, I'm just not finding any reasons other than simply not liking it. We didn't need a proof of identity to access the internet before because 1) No one was interested enough to demand it because it's lack of widespread dependency like today 2) The tech to prove that didn't…

> study after study is damning against the unfettered access of it. No child is accessing the Internet without something a parent allowed them (or a different child) to have. Bad parents are the root of most of societal ills. This is an example of the "terrible people" you mention. Societies need to take a serious look at that. You can require all the privacy-preserving ID checks you want and completely hollow out al…

so you're saying kids with bad parents deserve to suffer?

Ok, parents should do better, whatever. By your logic, a strip club has no obligation to keep children out because that's the parents' job?

> I don't know what you're adding to conversations about this other than "it won't be so bad if done the right way, so just accept it."

I'm adding the discussion of an actual solution instead of burying of heads in sands.

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> study after study is damning against the unfettered access of it. No child is accessing the Internet without something a parent allowed them (or a different child) to have. Bad parents are the root of most of societal ills. This is an example of the "terrible people" you mention. Societies need to take a serious look at that. You can require all the privacy-preserving ID checks you want and completely hollow out al…

so you're saying kids with bad parents deserve to suffer? Ok, parents should do better, whatever. By your logic, a strip club has no obligation to keep children out because that's the parents' job? > I don't know what you're adding to conversations about this other than "it won't be so bad if done the right way, so just accept it." I'm adding the discussion of an actual solution instead of burying of heads in sands.

> so you're saying kids with bad parents deserve to suffer?

I don't see how. Help me understand. Explain how kids with bad parents are suffering because parents might get fined or other legal action if they don't prevent their children from doing things they shouldn't with property the parents give them.

> By your logic, a strip club has no obligation to keep children out because that's the parents' job

It really is the parent's job. I don't have a problem with local regulations saying certain businesses can't attract minors, but unless people in the business are going up to children and saying "hey why don't you come here" or there is some other type of enticement, the far more important question is why you're letting your children go to or near a strip club.

> I'm adding the discussion of an actual solution

Hard disagree. All your preceding posts in this thread could be validly summarized "it won't be so bad if done the right way, so just accept it" and each post is simply increasing the amount of "think of the children" histronics. Looking at your other posts, I see heuristics of agenda pushing, such as posts consisteing of walls of text and repetition of key points. I won't engage this thread anymore as I don't believe you are discussing in good faith. Peace.

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so you're saying kids with bad parents deserve to suffer? Ok, parents should do better, whatever. By your logic, a strip club has no obligation to keep children out because that's the parents' job? > I don't know what you're adding to conversations about this other than "it won't be so bad if done the right way, so just accept it." I'm adding the discussion of an actual solution instead of burying of heads in sands.

> so you're saying kids with bad parents deserve to suffer? I don't see how. Help me understand. Explain how kids with bad parents are suffering because parents might get fined or other legal action if they don't prevent their children from doing things they shouldn't with property the parents give them. > By your logic, a strip club has no obligation to keep children out because that's the parents' job It really is…

"think of the children" has been effective because there is merit in it, you can't just dismiss things because someone says "think of the children"!! are you really saying that there is no harm coming to minors? are you really saying that your politics supersedes all else, even this? how are you different then from those who exclude pedos in office/clergy/positions of power? just because this is your ideology doesn't change who is being harmed.

It's unfortunate you abandoned this discussion, but I understand. I'll defend my position nevertheless.

> It really is the parent's job.

Parents have a responsibility, but children are not property or machines that someone is responsible for that way. They are part of society, and society as a whole is responsible for protecting them. That includes protecting them from their own parents, as well as anyone else. There are entire suites of laws, courts and services established around this very principle. It doesn't even matter whose job it is, what matters is harm being reduced.

Your argument seems to be "a well, too bad, shouldn't be my problem, why should i be inconvenienced because someone's weird offspring is harmed"...sorry , I think you need to find another society without minors in it.

Honestly though, shame on you and everyone else on this thread! may the entire internet burn down before a single child's harm is justified for its continuance.

May this entire civilization burn if it continues to defend pedos and harm to the most innocent and defenseless. But I'm hopeful that reasonable voices win, and if they don't, I'd rather be inconvenienced and have this nice little status quo that's been around for only a few decades disrupted.

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#558
post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only that. The Eu is also implementing 'age verification', at the same time with - surprise - digital id. It's just an attempt to reverse the free internet and implement total surveillance.

The age verification with the EU ID card can be implemented without leaking any identifying information. If it's gonna be like that is questionable, but it's technically possible.

> without leaking any identifying information

Do you really believe that the governments and the Eu machinery won't use that information for other purposes...

https://bianet.org/haber/eu-strips-journalist-huseyin-dogru-...

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#559
post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The age verification with the EU ID card can be implemented without leaking any identifying information. If it's gonna be like that is questionable, but it's technically possible.

> without leaking any identifying information Do you really believe that the governments and the Eu machinery won't use that information for other purposes... https://bianet.org/haber/eu-strips-journalist-huseyin-dogru-...

It's not about what I believe or not, it's about technical capabilities of the ID card.

Re: Age verification for social media, the beginning of the end for a free internet?

#560
post #558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> without leaking any identifying information Do you really believe that the governments and the Eu machinery won't use that information for other purposes... https://bianet.org/haber/eu-strips-journalist-huseyin-dogru-...

It's not about what I believe or not, it's about technical capabilities of the ID card.

Technical capabilities of the card or anything else are immaterial compared to who can access and control the data.
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