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It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

jeffgeerling.com

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Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#551

Post by 46493168 »

layer8 wrote: post #545
46493168 wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is, indeed, the purpose of advertising.

You wrote “I would be surprised to find that any consumer chooses a device because of its marketing spend”. But advertising does skew consumer choice by its presentation, and the success correlates with marketing spend. It’s far from merely informational. Otherwise we’d just have black on white listings of “this product exists” with spec sheets.

Then why doesn’t Samsung just spend twice as much as Apple and take over the entire market? Are they stupid?

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#552

Post by dijit »

youre-wrong3 wrote: post #359
dijit wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

last time I tried Linux on ARM (a month ago) nothing worked. No sound, no webcam, no USB-C(iirc) and no video hardware acceleration. It was a Thinkpad T14s with Snapdragon Elite X-2 if it matters.

Had a similar issue and just pointed codex at my laptop and it got everything working.

how'd you do that when wifi and USB wasn't working?

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#553

Post by JKCalhoun »

SOLAR_FIELDS wrote: post #441
whimblepop wrote: post #83

I was seduced by Apple Silicon after experiencing the exceptional battery life and performance. Those things are great, as are the screens and the speakers. But I'm still excited about the Framework 12 because I don't love macOS. I don't need an alternative to beat Apple on every line of the spec sheet. I just need them to align with my values, support Linux well, and cross a certain "good enough" threshold. The late…

The thing about the framework 12 is that they are giving you an open device that is meant to be upgraded. The value of that is different to everyone, but to place it side by side hardware wise and try to compare it as if it is equivalent on the software side to the closed source bullshit Apple has on offer feels at the very least a false equivalency

That's cool. Can I upgrade the display? That seemed to be a very weak point for the Framework 12 (for me anyway).

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#554

Post by Cockbrand »

MisterTea wrote: post #550

How much of the hardware cost of the Neo and other Apple Silicon machines is subsidized by their other income streams? If Apple was simply selling computers, I highly doubt they would be as affordable as the Framework.

I in contrast highly doubt that Apple would release a potentially super popular product that doesn't create a profit. My personal assumption is that the profit margin for the MB Neo is quite low, but it still exists.

Their advantage is that they have long running, very tight contracts with their suppliers, and extremely high vertical integration. They don't have to share a part of the profit margin with Intel or Microsoft. Also, they have a simple product range with comparatively few SKUs, and produce an extremely high volume of units, taking advantage of the economies of scale.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#556

Post by rjrjrjrj »

herewulf wrote: post #547
drnick1 wrote: post #137

The point of the Framework is to run Linux, and not to be part of Apple's ecosystem. I don't want my computer to update itself without my permission, report telemetry to Apple, upload anything to any "cloud" or request that I log into something. If you don't think this is a big deal, wait until an age or identity verification law is passed somewhere, and Apple will enforce it against your will, on the computer that y…

Absolutely, and this is also a big deal for longevity of your purchase. I have an iMac from 2012 and it's a beautiful piece of reliable hardware, with a beautiful screen. However, the software is stuck on some version of macOS from years ago and so more and more applications are refusing to install. It's on life support with Firefox ESR and MacPorts (just recently — was on Homebrew). And it works fine for browsing an…

> I have an iMac from 2012

> Well, I have a Framework 13 also, running Linux, and despite the hardware being from 2022

Please be sure to add a comment in 2036 on how your Framework/Linux experience worked out.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#557

Post by bayindirh »

joxdosba wrote: post #542
sfjailbird wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how Apple has come full circle. Back in the 90s, when they were in deep crisis (before the second coming of Jobs), it was almost conventional wisdom that they should just stop selling hardware, and focus on their superior software. And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS.

> And here we are today when a lot of people lust for the hardware, but just can't deal with MacOS Are there actually a lot of such people? Linux-on-desktop users are certainly loud, but also extremely uncommon.

I'm a "Linux on Desktop" person, and the reason I use macOS on laptops is it's the best non-Linux OS which works great with Linux and comes with great hardware.

The funny thing is, I'm using macOS for ~20 years now, and there are "still" things which are way better on Linux. As a result, macOS is a laptop-only secondary OS for me.

I have a couple of Desktop computers both for work and personal use, and they run Linux exclusively, for 20+ years.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#558

Post by okasaki »

rjrjrjrj wrote: post #556
herewulf wrote: post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely, and this is also a big deal for longevity of your purchase. I have an iMac from 2012 and it's a beautiful piece of reliable hardware, with a beautiful screen. However, the software is stuck on some version of macOS from years ago and so more and more applications are refusing to install. It's on life support with Firefox ESR and MacPorts (just recently — was on Homebrew). And it works fine for browsing an…

> I have an iMac from 2012 > Well, I have a Framework 13 also, running Linux, and despite the hardware being from 2022 Please be sure to add a comment in 2036 on how your Framework/Linux experience worked out.

My thinkpad x61 from 2007 runs the latest Ubuntu and software

edit: and has the same amount of ram as the mac neo.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#559

Post by jnovek »

andybp85 wrote: post #538
vladvasiliu wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Until you need to repair something or change some hardware How often does this happen, though? I have a 2013 MBP that still works perfectly. And I'm not even talking about the screen, which is ridiculously better than most new pc laptops. And then, of course, there's the touchpad, which, for some reason, is still unmatched in pc land. It has 512 GB of SSD and 16 of RAM. This is basically what the new "upgraded" PCs…

in my day job doing enterprise web apps at a mac shop 16G became unusable for the engineers 3-5 yeas ago. i managed to weasel into them getting me a 64G M1 Pro in 2022 (now they won't buy us any higher than 32G). i'll probably still be using this thing in six years! to be fair, given the choice between a decade-old macbook and basically any current windows box with same specs, i'd take the macbook every time. but, if…

What web stuff are you guys working on that 16GB didn’t cut it a few years ago? I’m not questioning your statement, it’s just completely different world from my day-to-day and I’m curious.

Re: It's hard to justify buying a Framework 12

#560

Post by ndsipa_pomu »

dude250711 wrote: post #126
Aurornis wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are there really a significant number of people willing to buy a computer with no concern for the type of software it will be able to run? Most common software that typical buyers use is available on Mac or Windows: Web browsers, office software, maybe an e-mail client. This is why Chromebooks are a viable option, too. Even my software development workflows are mostly cross-platform when I think about it. I can run…

Besides, the Linux app is available for Windows - no need to run it bare-metal: https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install

Depends on how much control you want over the hardware. I find that laptop/desktop windows installs tend to force reboots when it might not be convenient and of course there the issue of unreliable software updates.

I'd much rather have Linux be in control of the hardware and run Windows as a VM on it.

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