Live data from Hacker News

We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

theguardian.com

551–560 of 606 posts

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, you do have to choose because money for education (or anything) isn’t unlimited. The US is the richest nation on Earth. It can easily afford to educate its people. If you really think we'd need to find new sources of tax dollars to fund that, I have a whole lot of suggestions for where to start and I'd bet that you can easily think of a few low hanging fruit yourself. > There’s a real question of how many resou…

We are in a record amount of debt and we are about to go to war again. That’s not including the fact that we have a shortage of teachers who are underpaid. As for “new” sources of taxation, increasing the burden on the middle class is yet another way the bottom 20% eats up 80% of the resources. Tax the rich? Unfortunately, if you tax them high enough, they will just leave. They haven’t been patriotic since the last c…

> We are in a record amount of debt and we are about to go to war again.

Isn't it funny how nobody ever worries about how much that's going to cost, no matter how unnecessary there's never any effort to make sure that our warmongering is funded before burdening taxpayers with it. Seems like a ripe target for some tax savings.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I feel terrible for the children, but feel a smug delight over watching their parents mourn the loss that they could have easily prevented?

Then you are a psychopath. I truly feel sorry for you.

If you say so.

I have empathy, but that empathy ends when people are dealing with direct consequences of their actions.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#553
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is why European/Arabs/Africans aren't moving to China. > Chinese is not too difficult a language, but it’s likely very different from your native language. It is much easier for me, as a Canadian, to move to basically any European country and learn the language there than to move to China. I would also earn more money than in China. This is true for much of the world. Chinese is a better language to lear…

> The question is why European/Arabs/Africans aren't moving to China. China is terrible at diversity. They don't look like it because they don't have a history of foreign colonialism or slavery like the West. It's not based on greed/hate. But look at how they treat indigenous minorities (Uyghurs, Tibetans, Mongols). Banning minority language instruction, banning religious texts, mass surveillance, etc. They have a ve…

>>> They don't look like it because theydon't have a history of foreign colonialism or slavery like the West

>>> CCP's worldview, diversity is not a strength

These two sentences are contradicting each other.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#554
post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just said it in another post today, but I had a family member recently die from colorectal cancer when they were on a list for a new treatment at Yale, which was canceled because of the so-called Big Beautiful Bill. The doctor who was to perform it literally said "I want you to think of this procedure in terms of a cure" when they were stage 4 for like 7 years at that point. BBB slashed funding for cutting edge med…

> The doctor who was to perform it literally said "I want you to think of this procedure in terms of a cure" I have difficulty believing a medical professional would say that.

This is what my family told me. They may not have been his exact words but he believed it had a very strong possibility to go into complete remission. This was after they had gone through other therapies like HIPEC, where they told me it'd buy them a few years (they got 8). The problem is CRC will often metastasize into areas current treatments can't really get at and that tends to be where the cancer comes back. Apparently this procedure got right in there.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#555

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the vast number of people already live under some variation of authoritarianism.

Comparatively few people live under worse authoritarianism than the one in China. Definitely not enough to form a talent pool that would make any dent in whatever China already has. Especially when you factor in education quality.

OP said most people live under some form of authoritarianism, not a worse form than China's.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#556
post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>and they get deported very quickly for minor crimes As compared to that Irish guy who has been in the US concentration camp for 5 months now, the court ordered his release which ICE just ignored and they won't deport him either. Yeah, definitely sounds much better than what China is doing.

Godwin's law? It seems dismissive of the holocaust to call ICE facilities concentration camps. Unless they installed gas rooms and work until death requirements recently?

> Godwin's law? It seems dismissive of the holocaust to call ICE facilities concentration camps.

Concentration camps have a long history (you can start with the Wikipedia article on the topic). Nazi concentration camps in 30s and 40s, and the holocaust that they are linked to, happened over a relatively short time period in that history that continued even after. So Godwin's law indeed, brought about by yourself.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#557
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Certainly! “A concentration camp is a prison or other facility used for internment” Internment is long-term (see Wikipedia), whereas the ICE detention centers are short-term (average stay < 30 days but depends on time for deportation ).

> Internment is long-term (see Wikipedia), The Wikipedia page for Internment [1] doesn't include the words long-term when I view it. Internment is the imprisonment of people, commonly in large groups, without charges or intent to file charges. The term is especially used for the confinement "of enemy citizens in wartime or of terrorism suspects". Thus, while it can simply mean imprisonment, it tends to refer to preve…

It’s not timeframe per se, but rather holding indefinitely without actual charges.

Jails are not concentration camps. Detention centers are not concentration camps. (Unless they hold indefinitely without charges.)

Seamus Culleton is welcome to leave…to his country of citizenship. He illegally overstayed his visa, and wants to stay anyway.

ICE doesn’t want people in detention centers. Generally speaking they are all welcome to leave.

This is not the same as eg FDR’s Japanese internment camps, let alone Hilter’s.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#558

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well... they weren't immigrants, they were annexed. Why should they speak English?

They didn't have to. But they also shouldn't expect the annexing government or populace to accommodate them. Their country lost the war, lost the territory, and those that stayed and chose to take American citizenship should've learned English, the (de facto) language of the country they chose to join.

People still speak German in South Tyrol even though it's part of Italy since 1919.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Poverty” might be the cause, but it’s not just poverty by itself. Every country has rich people and poor people. The U.S., however, has that normal spectrum, plus subpopulations that have unique circumstances that aren't accounted for just by income level. Look at NAEP scores: https://fordhaminstitute.org/national/commentary/some-racial... (Table 1). Asians average 312 in 8th grade math, compared to 293 for whites a…

> “Poverty” might be the cause, but it’s not just poverty by itself. Every country has rich people and poor people. The U.S., however, has that normal spectrum, plus subpopulations that have unique circumstances that aren't accounted for just by income level. Culture is a thing, as I'm sure you know (we discussed it some time ago here). Like, in general, (many) Irish people value education above and beyond what would…

For purposes of this discussion, I'm not trying to identify the causes of the differences between the sub-populations. My point is that if you are talking about the quality of the educational system--which is what this discussion is about--you need to compare apples with apples between countries. And to do that, you need to account for the fact that the U.S. sub-populations aren't equally situated.

For example, Asian Americans outscore Japanese, Korean, and Taiwanese students in PISA, including math. That's not a cultural difference. That's because Asian Americans aren't a random sample of Asians. The vast majority are within one generation of a very tough selection filter that screens for high skill, high intelligence, and high motivation. If the point is comparing schools, it doesn't make sense to include Asian Americans in the average.

> I get that you're more familar with US society, but this is a thing basically everywhere.

It's not a thing in the east Asian countries that top the educational charts, like Japan and Korea. Poor Japanese and Koreans still belong to the majority ethnic group, speak the national language at home, etc.

Say you transplanted Japanese or Korean schools into one of the many majority-Hispanic school districts in the U.S. where most of the kids are children of low-skill, non-English-speaking immigrants (often illegal immigrants). Would those Japanese or Korean schools have higher test scores than the American ones? I suspect they'd actually be worse, because they'd be totally unequipped to deal with a large student population from a non-native language background.

My wife's aunt's kids go to a school in a more rural part of Oregon. Many of the kids are children of agricultural workers. Many of these kids don't even speak Spanish at home. They speak one of dozens of different indigenous Latin American languages. Japanese and Korean schools educate the children of poor agricultural workers too, but those kids still speak Japanese and Korean at home! If the goal is to measure school quality, is it really fair to just put those kids into the average and fault American schools for doing worse than Japanese or Korean schools?

> I honestly think that the US "unique circumstances" are cope for the lack of decent income mobility and social safety nets that prevent a larger proportion of people from realising their potential.

Even if that were true, that would be more a point about the fairness of U.S. society rather than the quality of the educational system. I don't think it makes sense to conflate those two questions in a discussion of the U.S.'s competitiveness against China.

Moreover, income mobility in the U.S. doesn't break down by sub-population the way you might think. For example, while Hispanics have lower incomes because most are immigrants or children of immigrants, they have higher income mobility: https://economics.princeton.edu/working-papers/intergenerati.... Children of Guatemalan immigrants in the U.S. have higher income mobility than children of native-born Americans. Household incomes for Hispanics converges on the household income for whites within a few generations: https://academic.oup.com/qje/article/135/2/711/5687353

So focusing on PISA scores for "whites" isn't really about race or culture. It's just a proxy for "people whose families have been in the U.S. long enough to dispel the effect of immigration filters." If you were conducting the same analysis 100 years ago, you might try to exclude Italians or Irish from the analysis. Again, the point is to compare schools, not all the other sociological factors that are involved when dealing with immigrant populations.

Re: We're no longer attracting top talent: the brain drain killing American science

#560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we have to massively raise taxes. We need to claw back billions and billions and billions of dollars from people for whom it will make zero difference in their daily lives, so that we can spend it on people for whom $100 can change their month, and $10000 can change their life.

Lol. No. We have to massively raise taxes JUST to keep this country afloat financially. The poor people are still fucked. I know it is exactly massively popular to say, which is why you don't see major proponents sans rando online like me.

Or, y'know, maybe the reason is more this:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47058280

Post reply on HN