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GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

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Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#551

Post by mtlmtlmtlmtl »

bergheim wrote: post #105

Been using this for about a year on a p9 pro. It works very well. I hear the google tap to pay does not work, but I've never tried it. However Vipps with their tap to pay works fine. BankID works but not with biometric login, which some things require IIRC. And for some reason DnB private works fine, but you are not allowed in on the corp app. It's mind boggingly stupid that they lock down apps like this, when you ca…

About BankID: There was a regression in the app back in june that broke the app entirely. Back then I emailed the developers complaining about it, and their response indicated that there was no deliberate attempt at breaking BankID on GrapheneOS, and the specific developer who replied to me said he was a fan of the OS.

Biometric login was also confirmed to work around the same time. I can however confirm that it doesn't work on the latest app version. It complains that the webview isn't Google Chrome.

This is probably just an oversight. I will email them again; good chance they'll push a fix to recognise Vanadium webview.

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#553

Post by Aachen »

palata wrote: post #80
noirscape wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GOS creates a complete bunker of a phone that can provide defense against pretty much all but the most dedicated state level actors. If you're worried that someone would steal your phone specifically to target you, Graphene will protect against that. Securitywise it's hard to argue against them, although GOS tends to sacrifice usability in favor of security, which leads to odd decisions. Their device depreciation tim…

I have been a user of /e/OS for 5 years, and also of GOS and would like to share my opinion on this: > it's worth noting that the GOS community is absurdly toxic to anyone doing anything privacy-related that isn't under the banner of GOS What I have seen (and I am not involved in any of those projects) is that GOS does care a lot about security, has a higher quality in that regard than anything else, and tends to be…

I'm also not involved with any mobile privacy/security project, unless OpenStreetMap data and self-hosting can be said to be such

> GOS does care a lot about security, has a higher quality in that regard than anything else, and tends to be blunt about "inferior" projects communicating about security.

Two remarks:

- There's a difference between "blunt" and hostile or misleading. GOS (owners) are often the latter two from what I read, where by misleading I mean distorting reality about whom you should be protecting from and recommending you should never use anything else to reach your goals (as opposed to GOS' goals)

- They also reply when privacy comes up in other projects, not just security, but they treat it as though it's essential for privacy. Not everyone is running from an intelligence agency or cellebrite border checkpoints, some people just want a phone with as many open components as possible or want to lie to Facebook about which contacts are on their device. You don't need a locked bootloader and be prevented from accessing your own data for that (can't access /data on your own device on any official GrapheneOS build; which is fine if that's what you want, but not everyone's goals are the same)

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#554

Post by askonomm »

edoceo wrote: post #382
askonomm wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Estonia you can easily do banking via the website on all the banks (LHV, Swedbank, SEB). That said, we do have it all integrated with our digital-ID (which every ID card has private keys encoded into with a PIN you know) so it's not like you can access it with a simple password (our online voting works the same way).

Can the PIN change? How to issue new key if needed? How does it integrate with the voting?

Voting, much like all other things in Estonia such as getting married/divorced, doing taxes, signing documents, starting/closing companies, notary dealings, bank dealings, selling/buying vehicles, and many more things I can't even think of right now are entirely done via the digital ID that every citizen has. This means that you authorize/sign actions with it, including voting, because only you have your private keys (either in your personal ID card, in your phone's sim card, etc) that you yourself know the PIN for, which then authenticates you as being you. I think we're now at a point where there isn't a single government or business dealing you can not do entirely online (https://e-estonia.com/solutions/).

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#555

Post by haskman »

codethief wrote: post #154

I've used GrapheneOS on a Pixel 3a, 5, 8 and 10 Pro so far and it's worked really well. I couldn't imagine going back. The only things I'm missing (which don't exist in other OS'es either): - Being able to configure contact scopes in such a way that the app in question only gets access to the phone numbers of the contacts belonging to the label I specified, e.g. "WhatsApp", nothing more. Yes, one can of course add co…

> Being able to install browser extensions in Vanadium.

You can use IronFox - available in Accrescent store that comes with GrapheneOS, and install firefox extensions

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#556

Post by tonyedgecombe »

antonyh wrote: post #404
shevy-java wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This should be illegal that the government forces people into apps controlled by private, commercial entities. I call such a government corrupt. Here in central Europe I can still access the bank website fine without smartphone. I need a physical device to yield a TAN though, but I can access and do online transactions fine. So I think something is wrong with the spanish government. People need to protest.

I switched bank in the UK due to enforced app use, from Starling to Nationwide. They use a card reader to issue codes, so I can still use the web. I see this as a much of a must-have as physical bank branches with real cashier services.

But Starling has always been app only?

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#557

Post by Aachen »

palata wrote: post #101
realusername wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like GrapheneOS but they fail to understand in this post that the #1 security concern an android user face is the lack of privacy. Sure they have hardened everything but realistically, that's not the main threat for your average user. Their top contribution to android is the sandboxed Google Play, by far.

I think it's more of a marketing claim from less secure systems that "privacy is not security, and GrapheneOS focuses on security while we focus on privacy". GrapheneOS does care about both, quite obviously. And GrapheneOS tends to say that if your security is bad, then it is affecting your privacy too. Whereas others say "sure, we break the Android security model by unlocking the bootloader and signing our system wi…

> I think it's more of a marketing claim from less secure systems that "privacy is not security

I'm not sure Cyanogenmod had a marketing team that convinced me of anything when I first installed their rom in 2013 and explored my phone's capabilities with root. Accessing the sensor devices, inspecting what the different apps do, what the OS is doing, installing Xprivacy to provide fake data to tracking apps... none of that is possible on GrapheneOS, you can only use the Android APIs, same as on stock

Am I brainwashed by marketing?!

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#558

Post by Aachen »

realusername wrote: post #122
scheeseman486 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That reads more as sports team flag wavey thoughts and feelings trust than anything actually backed by objective data.

That's the difference between trusted computing (Linux distribution) and untrusted computing (Android). If you want something backed by objective data, my phone has an advertising ID built in the OS and my laptop doesn't. My phone had 100s of privacy scandals and my laptop doesn't have one. I do applaud GrapheneOS don't get me wrong but I have a feeling that they are fighting a losing battle.

What advertising ID is built into the OS?

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#559

Post by SahAssar »

RRRA wrote: post #262

Until these OS also start putting forward something like WebOS that tried to get phones back to on open web, there is no breaking the binary format and Appstore monopoly. I wish Europe would have forced that 10 years ago since the US is beyond saving.

Was WebOS really that much about openness? Are you not thinking of FirefoxOS/B2G?

Re: GrapheneOS – Break Free from Google and Apple

#560

Post by Aachen »

jeffbee wrote: post #426
ForHackernews wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main difference is that GrapheneOS prioritizes security hardening first and foremost (above usability or compatibility). /e/OS focuses on privacy (i.e. reducing data leakage to adtech) and usability over security. To put it concretely, GrapheneOS recommends running all the proprietary Google apps in a locked "sandbox" so they can't read data on the phone outside the sandbox -- but obviously Google still gets to s…

> security hardening first and foremost (above usability or compatibility). Right. Something that GrapheneOS boosters often fail to mention. It's not like those guys at Google are just idiots and don't know how to make a hardened allocator. Android uses a different hardened allocator that is much, much faster and uses less space. GrapheneOS is slower and uses more memory.

I assume this is all technically correct, but in practice I've not noticed any speed difference between stock Pixel and GrapheneOS. Maybe their Vanadium browser when tab switching, that feels slow, but I wasn't planning on being part of the Chromium monoculture anyway so this doesn't matter to me
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