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The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

politico.eu

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Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#551

Post by brabel »

bruce511 wrote: post #469
stingraycharles wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Advertising = compensating someone to promote a product / company. It’s about the compensation. That makes it advertising. Regular booking.com is fine. Paying booking.com to allow your results to appear higher is not. Regular Google Maps to register your restaurant is fine. Paying Google Maps to promote your restaurant is not. It’s not that hard to implement. Advertising is pretty well defined.

>> Advertising = compensating someone to promote a product / company. That's a definition, sure. I feel like it leaves loopholes (under this definition spam isn't advertising, and I guess affiliation programs are?) If I pay someone to print flyers is that advertising? If I pay squarespace for my site, is that advertising? What if I need a Google maps subscription to place pins? Is placing a pin then advertising? Even…

What are you trying to say, that it's impossible to define anything legally without edge cases?? That's bullocks.

> If I pay someone to print flyers is that advertising?

What the hell, we're talking about internet... you can't put printed flyers on the internet.

> If I pay squarespace for my site, is that advertising?

No. It's your site, not a third-party site promoting your site!

> What if I need a Google maps subscription to place pins? Is placing a pin then advertising?

If you promote it somehow, yes... if you just say there's a business there, no, since you're not actively promoting it. Information that something exists by itself cannot be included in "promotion".

> And all existing videos with sponsorship need yo be removed?

Yes, or re-uploaded without the sponsor segment.

> And I guess no online watching of sports (lots of people paid to wear a logo there...)

There could be exceptions for ads placed on the real world which are not paid for by the site/creator. There's always cases that must be allowed, no prohibition is absolute.

> Presumably no product placement in Netflix shows (not sure what to do with old content?)

To be honest, I wouldn't mind subtle product placements in shows. That's a lot less hostile than actual ads we see today on the Internet.

> Of course I'm not paid to advertise MiraclePill.

If you lie that you're not paid by someone while you are, like with any law, you can be prosecuted for it.

> Alas, I fear it isn't...

You didn't show what you think you did.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#552

Post by thfuran »

raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #448
gpm wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course they have. Off the top of my head examples include: Grants in the form of tax dollars (e.g. arxiv). To benefit the authors reputation (e.g. numerous scientists, developers, etc personal sites. zacklabe.com as a useful example). As a hobby (I think aiarena.net falls into this category). To collect data for research purposes (e.g. the original chatgpt release, and early recaptcha)...

What could possible go wrong with the government funding media? It’s not like they would take away funding for media that they don’t agree with.

PBS and BBC are both pretty well regarded and receive public funding.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#553

Post by vanviegen »

coffeemug wrote: post #141
jjcm wrote: post #64

Here's the actual statement from the European Comission: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_... It's important to note they aren't creating laws against infinite scrolling , but are ruling against addictive design and pointing to infinite scrolling as an example of it. The wording here is fascinating, mainly because they're effectively acting as arbiters of "vibes". They point to certain feat…

I thought about it for only a few seconds, but here is one way to do it. Have users self-report an "addiction factor", then fine the company based on the aggregate score using a progressive scale. There is obviously a lot of detail to work out here-- which specific question do you ask users, who administers the survey, what function do you use scale the fines, etc. But this would force the companies to pay for the ad…

And what about games that are actually just great fun? That would be easy to confuse with addictive, right?

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#554

Post by lII1lIlI11ll »

happytoexplain wrote: post #165
randomNumber7 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's already annoying to buy drugs just because some % of people get too addicted. Now you also want to forbid doomscrolling?

Yes. To be clear, the implication of this comment is that you would like to deregulate addictive drugs...?

I would assume any sane person would have them regulated the same way as alcohol and tobacco so that people who want them could at least get those compounds clean and not die because their "heroin" turned out to be some mixture of fentanyl with god-knows-what.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#555

Post by lII1lIlI11ll »

ahhhhnoooo wrote: post #109
tokyobreakfast wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a phone. Put it in the trash. You will not go through physiological withdrawal symptoms. The amount of people in here right now clamoring for legislation to keep them away from electronics which they themselves purchased is mind-bogglingly insane.

Oooooof. Can I recommend you spend some time developing some empathy? The world is complicated. People's lives are complicated (and often meditated by their phones). People's emotional and social wellbeing is complicated, and simply ghosting all your social groups on a random Tuesday is likely to cause significant problems.

> People's emotional and social wellbeing is complicated, and simply ghosting all your social groups on a random Tuesday is likely to cause significant problems.

You are in a great place in your life, if your most significant problem is caused by not liking a stupid meme and a breakfast photo your friends posted on a random Tuesday...

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#556

Post by shevy-java »

Personally I don't like infinite scrolling - but the EU also needs to stop wasting time and energy on trying to micro-manage everything. We already had that disaster where pop-ups fly out "do you want to accept those cookies". That is just a usability nightmare. People are forced into extensions, just to stop wasting their time here.

Also, while I dislike infinite scrolling, why should the EU regulate the design of a website? I don't like this idea as a principle. This clearly comes from overpaid bureaucrats. I am not at all saying the EU should not become stronger, in the face of a very hostile and abusive USA - but the focus by these bureaucrats is wrong. Those micro-regulations will not get rid of US dominance in the software sector.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#558

Post by shevy-java »

jjcm wrote: post #64

Here's the actual statement from the European Comission: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/ip_26_... It's important to note they aren't creating laws against infinite scrolling , but are ruling against addictive design and pointing to infinite scrolling as an example of it. The wording here is fascinating, mainly because they're effectively acting as arbiters of "vibes". They point to certain feat…

> but are ruling against addictive design and pointing to infinite scrolling as an example of it

I still don't like that explanation at all. They imply that infinite scrolling is a sign of addictive design. How do they reach this conclusion? I can think of other ways that don't necessitate an addictive design. Some art form for instance. It may not be your cup of tea but that is art in general. I just don't see the logical connection.

Not that I am against taxing these greedy and evil US corporations. But that argument by the EU is simply not sound.

> Regardless of your take around whether this is EU overreach, I'm glad they're not implementing strict laws around what you can/can't do - there are valuable situations for these UI patterns, even if in combination they can create addictive experiences.

But why would you be in favour then? Does this make sense?

> but the regulated friction of major platforms (ie discord w/ ID laws) is on a collision course

This will happen anyway. Trump and his TechBros leverage the US corporations for their wars. You only need to listen to Vance, or Rubio doing his latest dance. Sadly the european politicians are also too weak to do anything other than talk big.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#559

Post by seszett »

shevy-java wrote: post #556

Personally I don't like infinite scrolling - but the EU also needs to stop wasting time and energy on trying to micro-manage everything. We already had that disaster where pop-ups fly out "do you want to accept those cookies". That is just a usability nightmare. People are forced into extensions, just to stop wasting their time here. Also, while I dislike infinite scrolling, why should the EU regulate the design of a…

> why should the EU regulate the design of a website?

There are laws regulating many things that could be considered "design", for example misleading packaging, mandatory information on some categories of ads, cigarette packaging, container sizes, accessibility requirements, etc.

I would say regulating against addictive design (infinite scrolling is not banned per se, it just makes for a catchy headline) is well within what laws are meant for.

Re: The EU moves to kill infinite scrolling

#560

Post by vasco »

What about TV, how come the channels are always playing?? They should shut off after 30mins and I shouldn't be able to press down button to do zapping all night long.

What about video games? We need session limits of 30mins, kids get too addicted to it.

In fact we're going to put a timer in every bedroom so that if you have sex with your wife for too long we'll fine you because it can turn into a real addiction.

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