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Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

eupolicy.social

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Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#551

Post by kergonath »

alephnerd wrote: post #181
Arodex wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guillotine wasn't for the super rich, but for the privileged by birth. The equivalent would be to guillotine the nepo babies (and the Ivy League administrators who rubber stamp their admission). Or fix inheritance. And by fix I mean tax as hell.

Most guillotined were commoners [0] - not the wealthy nor the intelligentsia. > Or fix inheritance. And by fix I mean tax as hell If France can't fix it [1] after politically powerful billionaires stymied it [2], neither can the US [0] - https://theconversation.com/the-french-revolution-executed-r... [1] - https://www.lemonde.fr/en/france/article/2025/10/31/french-l... [2] - https://www.reuters.com/world/frances-rich…

> Most guillotined were commoners [0] - not the wealthy nor the intelligentsia.

The guillotine for everyone was itself an egalitarian idea (I am not saying it really was progress, because the death penalty in itself is atrocious, but...) The status quo before was that the nobles were decapitated with a sword or axe (quick and usually painless death), whilst the commoners were hanged (usually long and very painful). In that light, a quick and painless death for everyone was better.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#552

Post by AngryData »

schmuckonwheels wrote: post #262
Fiveplus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be the absolute dream engineering brief. If I actually sit down and design that vehicle, it would have something like this. List, off the top of my head. 1. You keep the modern metallurgy and the crumple zones. You keep ABS and basic traction control because they are solved problems that save lives without needing cloud connectivity. 2. Instead of a 2000 USD proprietary touchscreen that will be obsolete in…

>the dashboard could be just a double DIN slot and a heavy-duty, universal tablet mount with a 100W USB-C PD port. The car provides the power and the speakers and my phone provides the maps and music. Legally mandated backup cameras make your idea DOA. In fact, nearly everything terrible about cars in the last decade can be traced to regulations in some way. Wondering why transmissions are insanely complicated and un…

A backup camera and screen only costs like $20 though, even buying it 3rd party. There is no requirement that it has to be in the center console, in fact I would think that is the worst possible place since it is the farthest spot possible away from your actual mirrors.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#553

Post by bean469 »

stickfigure wrote: post #115
Fiveplus wrote: post #12

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

> If your C15 breaks down in a field, you can fix it with a wrench. I could. My wife couldn't. Also, let's not forget the creature comforts of modern cars... rear seats, airbags, sound insulation, power steering, automatic transmissions, 4wd. Living in the country, tool-vehicles are very useful. This is typically a beat up old 2wd pickup truck (lower is easier to load) with an 8-ft bed (so you can load full sheets of…

> I could. My wife couldn't.

Many women can, though. So I don't see how that's an argument

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#554

Post by bean469 »

loeg wrote: post #270
Fiveplus wrote: post #12

The C15 represents a time when a vehicle was a tool. I feel vehicles want to turn into a subscription service these days. I still see these running in rural Spain and France, usually held together with wire and hope, clocking like what 400k+ km? The XUD diesel engines are practically unkillable. They have no ECU to brick, no adblue sensors to fail and put the car into limp mode and thankfully none of those DRM locked…

Modern cars break down less than older cars -- they are more reliable, not less. They generate more power, with better emissions. They have a wealth of creature comforts and features beyond what 1980s cars had.

> Modern cars break down less than older cars

Could be a coincidence, but I seem to hear the opposite from almost every single car mechanic I have ever talked to

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#555

Post by tmerc »

bri3d wrote: post #546
tmerc wrote: post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't miss that making software costs money. The point is making it protected costs more money and mainly hurts independent repair shops and consumers. Afaik, manufactures can set obd2 codes outside the mandatory codes, but still compatible with the protocol. If they elect to not do this in favor of creating their own protocol, I think we can agree that it costs more but does not have any benefit other than to the m…

> afaik, manufactures can set obd2 codes outside the mandatory codes, but still compatible with the protocol. No, and I think this misunderstanding drives a misunderstanding of the economic factors. There is no universal automotive diagnostic protocol that manufacturers simply are choosing not to use. There is UDS, but it isn't universal in a meaningfully useful way. This is actually pretty nuanced: road cars _have_…

Thanks for taking the time to give a thorough explanation. I'm going to have to spend more time reading through, but on a first read, I think you know way more about this than I do. I can't find "edit" to call out my mistake in the parent, but I agree it's a mistake from my lack of knowledge here. Sorry again for calling it bs. Your cynicism comment does hit home a bit, so I'll make some efforts to temper that in the future :)

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#556

Post by tanjtanjtanj »

kube-system wrote: post #497
tanjtanjtanj wrote: post #476

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see SO many illegally modified trucks and I've never seen or heard of someone getting in trouble or failing inspection for them. It boggles my mind every time I see a car with tires extending half a foot on either side of the cabin veering here and there, making their presence everyone else's problem.

The vast majority of US states do not require safety inspections.

Mine did until recently, which is the only state relevant to my comment.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#557

Post by blackguardx »

IgorPartola wrote: post #500
blackguardx wrote: post #464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Loading drywall into my minivan is a lot easier than a truck. I can fit whole sheets and close the back gate so I don't need to strap them down and they are protected from the elements.

How about gravel? Fill? A yard of mulch? Manure? Construction debris?

My minivan has more 50% weight capacity than a Toyota Tacoma. I can haul more construction debris and load/unload them easier because my tailgate is lower. I wouldn't want to try to haul mulch or manure though. That being said, most of my friends with trucks have caps on the back and can't haul mulch any easier than me.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#558

Post by LeChuck »

IgorPartola wrote: post #532
LeChuck wrote: post #511

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. When is was remodeling my house, I bought an old van for €2000,- (the successor to the C15, actually) * I had no compunction to fill it with debris, earth, sand etc. but that’s not something your European tradesman does. He uses a separate trailer. * https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1d/2005_Cit...

OK but I do not live in Europe (though I am originally from there). You are trying to convince me that there is no possible utility that a pickup truck can have where I live, despite you having no experience with it. I am telling you from personal experience that it does have utility while also having had experience with using cars, vans, trailers, and delivery services. What makes you so convinced that your lack of…

No, I’m saying you’re right. A pickup is much more usefull for that.

Re: Allow me to introduce, the Citroen C15

#559

Post by loeg »

bean469 wrote: post #554
loeg wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern cars break down less than older cars -- they are more reliable, not less. They generate more power, with better emissions. They have a wealth of creature comforts and features beyond what 1980s cars had.

> Modern cars break down less than older cars Could be a coincidence, but I seem to hear the opposite from almost every single car mechanic I have ever talked to

Should we trust real data, or anecdotes from the people who work almost exclusively with the cars that have broken down? I'm happy sticking with real data, personally.
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