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I'm returning my Framework 16

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Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#551

Post by p_ing »

easygenes wrote: post #194
brokencode wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious in case somebody knows. Are OLED displays in laptops bad at low light? He cites that as a reason he doesn’t want OLED, but I’ve never noticed such a problem on OLED phones.

I'd say the inverse is true: OLEDs are the best in low light, as they generally dim well and black means zero illumination of the pixel. Author is ill-informed. Also, OLED burn-in is a non-issue with current displays in any normal situation (e.g. not a kiosk or arcade or other sort of always-on static dashboard).

> always-on static dashboard)

Like the taskbar, dock, menu bar, etc.?

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#552

Post by jakogut »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #380
kelnos wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I never get this complaint about 16" laptops. Hell, I don't really get 16" laptops at all: they're huge! You're making a very strange trade off: they're only barely portable, and you lose a lot of the power and flexibility you'd get with a desktop.

I don't understand what people mean when they say "barely portable" about a device that weighs less than 10 pounds. You can't use a big laptop one handed in midair, but that's not "portability". And it can't be a weight hauling problem when small children can handle that much. What is the issue?

There's a difference between carrying ten pounds small distances for short durations, and carrying an extra two pounds over twenty hours of travel, across multiple connecting international flights in a single day. It's also not just an extra two pounds, it's an additional proprietary power cord, bulk, more mass moving in and out under an airliner seat, it all adds up. Especially when you're sleep deprived and physically exhausted.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#553

Post by grim_io »

goku12 wrote: post #547
brookst wrote: post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lamenting market taste and the resulting mass market designs is basically yelling at clouds. Simple fact is that most people have different priorities than the “make everything upgradable” crowd would like. That’s not going to change. Why would 90% of the market “unite” with 10% who want a totally different set of tradeoffs? It’s like asking that all car buyers unite and demand manual transmissions in every car. I lo…

I was expecting this reply here. But it's still the same old excuse to do nothing. It's as if we deserve nothing better than what the companies impose upon us. That's such a defeatist stance.

I don't think anyone is concerned what anyone deserves in terms of hardware.

Different companies "impose" different tradeoffs upon us. Pick what you like, but expect to pay a premium for a less popular choice.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#554

Post by LoganDark »

swiftcoder wrote: post #443
goku12 wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The crux of the matter is that even if one values upgradability and repairability, neither is a frequent need for practically anybody. Judging reparability and serviceability the same way as you do with other features is absurd, to put it charitably! It is one feature that you rarely use, but brings you huge value when you do use it. You don't realize how much savings we used to extract by progressively upgrading t…

> You don't realize how much savings we used to extract by progressively upgrading the same desktop PC for two to three generations instead of throwing away the whole PC and buying a new one each time Do you actually realise any savings doing that? Pretty sure I never have. Typically by the time I get around to upgrading, they've changed both the CPU socket and the RAM, so I need a whole new motherboard. And I certai…

AMD sockets last nearly a decade, and power supplies come with up to 13-year (or longer) warranties. It's just that it can be difficult to stay the course for the sheer amount of time it would take for you to realize those savings.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#555

Post by LoganDark »

baq wrote: post #353
makeitdouble wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Point taken, I totally see how brighter screens must be a boon for people who actually bring their laptop outdoors. My personal needs are way smaller so I missed that part completely (on contrast IDK, I recently had a Surface Pro 8 next to a MBP 4 and it didn't strike me, but I might not be sensible enough to that) > 1366x768 We've had HDPI for a decade now, that's truly awful. > ports Agreed, people needing more tha…

Brighter screens is a boon for anyone using a laptop, full stop. If it’s too bright, you can turn the brightness down, obviously doesn’t work this way in the opposite direction. Besides, the point isn’t even absolute max brightness, but the contrast ratio. OLEDs aren’t the brightest displays, but their contrast ratio blows pretty much everything else out of the water and that’s what makes you go wow when looking at a…

To me, OLED being self-emissive is a far bigger deal than the contrast ratio. With LCDs, even the laminated ones in MacBooks, you get backlight shimmering, bleed, halos (especially with Mini-LED), and general inconsistency. With OLED, the pixels are a single, nano-thin layer, the display looks directly printed onto the surface (because it is), there are no backlight issues because there's no backlight, and there's no polarization or enclosure to create viewing angle artifacts. (Note: QD-OLED is inferior in this regard, especially with ambient light, but that doesn't bother me that much; WOLED however is trash.)

The OLED iPad Pro is one of the best screens I've ever seen, besides the awful pixel density. Even if deactivated pixels weren't fully dark, it'd still be far superior to any LCD.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#556

Post by Dylan16807 »

jakogut wrote: post #552
Dylan16807 wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand what people mean when they say "barely portable" about a device that weighs less than 10 pounds. You can't use a big laptop one handed in midair, but that's not "portability". And it can't be a weight hauling problem when small children can handle that much. What is the issue?

There's a difference between carrying ten pounds small distances for short durations, and carrying an extra two pounds over twenty hours of travel, across multiple connecting international flights in a single day. It's also not just an extra two pounds, it's an additional proprietary power cord, bulk, more mass moving in and out under an airliner seat, it all adds up. Especially when you're sleep deprived and physica…

Any amount of weight is annoying after that long, but if the extra laptop weight is reduced to 10% of your 25 pound bag then it's even less able to be the deciding factor between "portable" and "barely portable".

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#558

Post by _cenw »

dzikimarian wrote: post #507
_cenw wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Framework 13. I haven't replaced it yet. And you missed the point. I believed in the "mission" of Framework. That was my primary motivation to buy one. But their stance here is not compatible with that. So I may as well buy a product that has more practical upsides for me. You know, when I actually have to replace my 7840U. Probably not anytime soon.

Honestly I don't think I did. I think I understand you. I would like to buy "perfect" product for me. But I'm small niche. There won't be one. I don't think we should cancel people that want to do something good over a few mistakes, while Microsoft gets to be openly hostile to users, Google does developer verification bullshit and Apple does blatant corruption right in the oval office. Don't even get me started on Zu…

I am not going to be an advocate for any company in that way if they willingly work with people that want to stomp out my rights or even my existence. I did recommend Framework Laptops to my work colleagues, friends and family. I wouldn't be doing that. You are of course correct that other companies are also bad, but Framework positions themselves as an explicit outsider to that system and they provide me with less direct value. It's not solely transactional to support them, it's a political stance. And it is unfit for me to position myself to support them. So I'll just go with the lowest bidder instead.

I would've been fine with it had there been a correction, but Nirav didn't even acknowledge the issue. His posts in the big megathread (for which they purposefully chose to merge into the one with the most incendiary name to make the entire point look bad) only address general sponsorships and Hyprland, a community that, from what I hear, has improved a lot. No word on their biggest sponsor check ever going to RubyCon. No word on Omarchy, a distro Nirav seems to have a personal stakes in (filed bugs, keeps interacting with DHH, keeps glazing them on social media).

My existence (in a literal way, in an access to HRT way, in a not being declaring as "inherently sexual" to be ejected from public life way... pick something) depends on enough people taking a strong stance against fascist rhetoric, and conversely not shrugging it off as "just some opinion". Of course I will prioritize that.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#559

Post by piskov »

tourmalinetaco wrote: post #550
piskov wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about macbooks is: - dead silence - unbelievably good battery life - tank sturdiness - great performance - amazing screen - amazing speakers - god-tier trackpad - repairability in a sense you’ll always find parts (albeit not cheap) and someone to service it — It is basically uncontested in a laptop space. I would only consider windows / linux on a desktop pc

You forgot: - inadequate cooling - fried NAND chips - screens spontaneously cracking - flexgate (not to be confused with bendgate) And that’s only a subset of the engineering failures with MacBooks. You even bring it up in your post: the only reason they have “dead silence” is because Apple is literally baking your laptop and leaving you to pay the bill. I’ll give Apple that their custom chips are pretty great for po…

The things you are pointing out are 6+ years old.

Cooling is the reason intel was ditched: intel promised for years new nodes, and apple designed for new power consumption that never came.

You don’t fuck with apple this way unpunished. That’s why nvidia was ditched circa 2013 to never come back.

—

As for something-gate: engineering is hard, especially on this scale. Still they were (and are) the best option overall.

= to be good doesn’t mean to be perfect; you just need to be better than competition.

And they are crushing it even in low-cost space. I mean m1 air for $800-900 is uncontested even today for what kind of solid machine you get.

Re: I'm returning my Framework 16

#560

Post by easygenes »

p_ing wrote: post #551
easygenes wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say the inverse is true: OLEDs are the best in low light, as they generally dim well and black means zero illumination of the pixel. Author is ill-informed. Also, OLED burn-in is a non-issue with current displays in any normal situation (e.g. not a kiosk or arcade or other sort of always-on static dashboard).

> always-on static dashboard) Like the taskbar, dock, menu bar, etc.?

No, those are generally not always-on in normal use. People let screens shut off, open up fullscreen apps, etc. Most OLED firmwares also have subtle pixel shifting and pixel refresh on shutdown routines, as well as very conservative brightness settings. OLEDs in normal use are actually less susceptible to color shift deterioration than LCDs in normal use.
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